[thepossum]

Hi all

Recently this hand came up. By itself it looked like a likely 4-5 Club hand (and maybe a 2C opener if I was opening) but North opened 1S. So I went the game force with 2C which everyone else with the hand did. West jumped to 4H. My North partner passed so I ended up in 5C not sure that I had enough to go further. A few people bid straight to 6C over 4H and a couple of human north players gave some encouragement in clubs ending up in 6C.

Given the lack of a rebid from North is 5C the correct bid. I was playing IMPs or is there enough there to go to 6C. I didnt think there was

regards P

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[apollo1201]

The fact that partner didn’t bid 4S or X 4H gives some hope that he has some minors. Expect east to have some S too...
The risk is that partner could have a small singleton C with KQxx D on the side. The C are slightly too weak (lack of intermediates) given this context, so i’d try 4NT even 8-5.
Hard to blame partner with an « aceless » hand for not bidding 6. I would though, just to push opps to save in 6H (an unwise decision as it goes 300 only!).
Some N might also give the fit immediately but I wouldn’t given the défensive nature of the H.
Extreme distributions are hard to bid and a lot of guess / blackmail-bluff (if I bid 7 will they know they have a defensive trick or will they take the insurance at 7H which is probably cheaper than a small slam) is involved.
Here you can thank East for his passivity!

[Cyberyeti]

This one is difficult, you kinda have the playing strength for 6♣ but not the club suit.

In any sensible system, partner's pass is forcing as you've forced to game, so he doesn't have a huge major 2 suiter or he'd probably X, I'd probably bid 5♦ suggesting you're willing for a correction to 6♣ but not 5♠ so showing extreme shape 6-5 or bigger.

[The_Badger]

The probability of a 8-5-0-0 hand is 0.000031 (and Badger had to look that one up). The probability of 9-2-1-1 (your opponent's hand) is 0.00018. As others have said, there is no right way or wrong way of bidding extreme distribution or goulash hands. Cyberyeti's suggestion is as sensible as it gets on this hand.

You'll win some lose some on these types of boards. After 5♦ by South it's automatic pilot for North to bid 6♣, a guesstimate if 7♣ is on. Better to register a plus score than a minus one, and remember that the opposition have to bid/guess these extreme distribution boards too.

[pescetom]

The_Badger, on 2018-December-31, 10:06, said:

The probability of a 8-5-0-0 hand is 0.000031 (and Badger had to look that one up). The probability of 9-2-1-1 (your opponent's hand) is 0.00018. As others have said, there is no right way or wrong way of bidding extreme distribution or goulash hands. Cyberyeti's suggestion is as sensible as it gets on this hand.

The probability of opponent holding 9♥-2-1-1 is going to shoot up given your own hand and the auction, of course, but it's still very unlikely. In general it's important to know if the deal is random or goulash, which changes the probabilities and perhaps even the way you bid (but not in this case).

[rmnka447]

When your auction has been preempted, the ides is to get to a good spot not necessarily the "best" spot. 6 ♣ happens to make on this layout, but there's no way to know what partner holds. It's quite possible partner could hold a hand where even 5 ♣ is iffy.

5 ♣ looks fine to me.

[thepossum]

Thanks all!

[ahydra]

How does GIB play 4NT rather than 5C? If minors, it would get the diamond suit into play. Unless North is feeling brave, that still doesn't get you to a slam though - there simply isn't any room to show extras and there's a risk of a spade ruff (North doesn't know you're void). Sometimes pre-empts work

ahydra

[thepossum]

ahydra, on 2019-January-02, 02:30, said:

How does GIB play 4NT rather than 5C? If minors, it would get the diamond suit into play. Unless North is feeling brave, that still doesn't get you to a slam though - there simply isn't any room to show extras and there's a risk of a spade ruff (North doesn't know you're void). Sometimes pre-empts work

ahydra

I have seen a 4NT minors bid by GIB a couple of times. Would that have been an option instead of 2C. Im not familiar enough to have picked that one

regards P