[smerriman]

The first thing you are taught when learning 2/1 is that after a 2/1 response, you no longer need to jump to show strength - you can keep the bidding low in order to give yourself as much time as possible to find the best contract.

But what the jumps actually mean seems to get glossed over. After 1♠ - 2♣:

- 3♦ + 3♥ - presumably splinters in clubs? Would 3NT still be to play?
- 3♠ - presumably setting spades as trumps and asking for a cuebid? What would 3NT then mean?
- 4♠ - what does this mean, and why would you choose it over 2♠?
- 3NT - what does this mean? Is this simply a bid you should never make (without prior agreement - if so, what's a normal agreement?)

[dsLawsd]

Conventions- great for firm partnerships, a nightmare for casual ones.

You need agreements on some of these.
I personally like jumps on this auction to show a very good 5 card side suit (4 in a pinch?. Raising clubs would allow for cue bidding, Key card or probing for the best spot.

Three spades would show 6+ semi-solid or better quality setting up a force. 3NT would be to play suggesting running tricks. Could have extras versus more than a mini 2 clubs.

I would guess that 3 NT in the other example would be a non-serious slam try, but really we need a partnership agreement.

There are undoubtedly methods that would show a singleton or void over 2 clubs perhaps unspecified.
It would be interesting to look at expert convention cards to see what they play. Thanks for this question!

[msjennifer]

Sir,what you were taught when/if learnt 2/1 is absolutely correct.There is no need to jump. The sequence you have mentioned viz. 1S-2C is one where the 2C bid is many a times ambiguous.and there may not be any club suit as such.A 3NT rebid is to play.If opener holds say a 5332 hand and 12/14 HCP a rebid of 2S is advisable. A 2NT rebid should have 15 HCP.(we do not like too open 1NT with a 5 card major.(A 1NT contract goes down, where a 1S/2S contract is easily making and 1NT goes PPP.).TO give a general example.,South has QJ764-AQ5-Q93-Q8 and playing a 13/15 NT opens 1S.N bid 2C ,S responds 2S.( not 2NT).This is the bidding if playing Precision but is certainly easily applicable playing a standard system.Using this only one pair with a Kxx spade fit played in 3NT where 4S contract went down due to a 4/1 break at all the other tables.(N had a 3235 hand with H-Jx)

[heart76]

 smerriman, on 2018-October-21, 17:39, said:

The first thing you are taught when learning 2/1 is that after a 2/1 response, you no longer need to jump to show strength - you can keep the bidding low in order to give yourself as much time as possible to find the best contract.

But what the jumps actually mean seems to get glossed over. After 1♠ - 2♣:

- 3♦ + 3♥ - presumably splinters in clubs? Would 3NT still be to play?
- 3♠ - presumably setting spades as trumps and asking for a cuebid? What would 3NT then mean?
- 4♠ - what does this mean, and why would you choose it over 2♠?
- 3NT - what does this mean? Is this simply a bid you should never make (without prior agreement - if so, what's a normal agreement?)

My small experience suggests to analyze to the 3rd round of bidding at least to see whether you want jumps at opener's 2nd bid and what for.
One thing to keep in mind is that the typical setup of 2/1 is having a 5-card M in 1NT 15-17 HCP, which for many nowadays include a 5-4 with a minor with distributed values.
This means that a bid that shows extras is either 18+ or at least 5-4 with concentrated values and 15+, which means tricks in a side suit.
If you don't have this and do not show strength somehow, you risk missing slam when both partners are around 15. How you show this strength needs careful agreement with partner.
Assuming your 2/1 is natural, and not with artificial 2♣, the sequences you should start with are those with less space: 1♠ - 2♥ and 1♥ - 2♦.

Also, what is 1M - 2NT? I'd recommend 4-card support and either invitational or better, or game forcing. This leaves the raises through 2/1 and 1NT as only 3-cards. It is essential also to understand what partner has shown / denied.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

After a splinter for a minor, 3NT is still to play, what else do you want to
play with lots of wastage in the splinter suit?

Jump to 3NT: The question is, what is 2NT.
If it is split range, 12-14 or 18/19, than what do you bid with 15-17,
unless you open those hands 1NT.

3NT after 3S undiscussed suggestion to play, discussed ... no idea.

4S is to play, the difference to 2S: 4S tells partner, you want to play 4S,
2S leaves a lot door / contracts open, it is also the default bid, i.e. it
tells partner nothing new.

Jump to 3NT: The question is, what is 2NT.
If it is split range, 12-14 or 18/19, than what do you bid with 15-17,
unless you open those hands 1NT.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[miamijd]

1S - 2C:

3D/3H: There are two common ways to play this.

Method 1: Splinter in clubs (should be 4-card club support)
Method 2: 5/5+ in spades and the bid suit with two very solid suits.

If you play that 1S/2NT is a natural, GF balanced hand a la Gitelman (using some other bid, generally 3C, to show the four-card GF raise), so that 2C strongly suggests a five-card suit, then I think the splinter is probably the better treatment. Otherwise, I don't have a strong preference.

3S: Slam-oriented with a one-loser (at most) spade suit opposite a singleton. You should play serious/non-serious 3NT at this point.

3NT: 15-17 balanced. For me, it's probably more on the 17 side, because I will generally (though not 100%) open 1NT with 15-16. With 12-14 or 18+, you start with 2NT. Then, if you have 18-19, you bid 4NT over 3NT.

4S: 7+ running spades; no 1st or 2nd round control in D or H. This "picture bid" gives partner all he needs to bid slam with:

xx AKx x AKxxxxx

and not go beyond 4S with

xxx AK xxx AKQJx

Cheers,
Mike

[pescetom]

 miamijd, on 2018-October-22, 13:25, said:

1S - 2C:

3D/3H: There are two common ways to play this.

Method 1: Splinter in clubs (should be 4-card club support)
Method 2: 5/5+ in spades and the bid suit with two very solid suits.

If you play that 1S/2NT is a natural, GF balanced hand a la Gitelman (using some other bid, generally 3C, to show the four-card GF raise), so that 2C strongly suggests a five-card suit, then I think the splinter is probably the better treatment. Otherwise, I don't have a strong preference.

3S: Slam-oriented with a one-loser (at most) spade suit opposite a singleton. You should play serious/non-serious 3NT at this point.

3NT: 15-17 balanced. For me, it's probably more on the 17 side, because I will generally (though not 100%) open 1NT with 15-16. With 12-14 or 18+, you start with 2NT. Then, if you have 18-19, you bid 4NT over 3NT.

4S: 7+ running spades; no 1st or 2nd round control in D or H. This "picture bid" gives partner all he needs to bid slam with:

xx AKx x AKxxxxx

and not go beyond 4S with

xxx AK xxx AKQJx

I wouldn't be comfortable with the splinter + 2NT natural agreement, but I agree 100% with the rest.
Jumps as picture bids emphasising the potential of specific suits, non-serious 3NT after a slam interested 3S.

[nige1]

A possible set of 2/1 agreements, similar to Pescetom's, after 1♠ - 2♣ - ??

• 2♦/2♥/3♣ = NAT. FG.
• 2♠ = NAT Dustbin bid. Might be MIN with only 5 ♠s. But could be a distributional mountain.
• 2N = BAL 18-9 or 12-14 with lead-value e.g. ♠ Q x x x x ♥ A Q ♦ K J x ♣ x x x
• 3♦/3♥ = SPL. Shortage in bid suit. Perhaps should show 5+ ♣s because responder might have 3-card suit e.g. ♠ K x x x x ♥ A ♦ x ♣ A x x x x x
• 3♠ = NAT. 13-15. Limited hand setting good 6+ suit e.g. ♠ K Q J x x x x ♥ A x x ♦ K x ♣ x. Then 3N = Serious.
• 3N = BAL. 15-17 e.g. ♠ A K Q x x ♥ J x x ♦ A J x ♣ x x
• 4♣/4♦/4♥ = (Void Auto-) SPL. Near solid ♠ suit e.g. ♠ A K Q x x x x ♥ A x ♦ J x x x ♣ -. (Alternatively 4♣ might be a picture-bid).
• 4♠ = NAT. Solid suit. Limited, No red control. ♠ A K Q J x x x ♥ Q x x ♦ x x ♣ x

Similarly, after 1♠ - 2♥ - ?? except

• 2♠ = NAT. Even more of a dustbin. Could be MIN with a second suit. e.g. ♠ A Q J x x ♥ x ♦ x x x ♣ K Q x x
• 3♣/3♦ = NAT. 5+ cards concentrated or reversing values. e.g. ♠ A K x x x ♥ x ♦ x x ♣ A K J x x
• 4♣/4♦ = SPL setting ♥.
• 4♥ = NAT. MIN. 4 ♥. Picture bid. No minor control. e.g. ♠ A K x x x ♥ K J x x ♦ x x ♣ x x

[miamijd]

 pescetom, on 2018-October-22, 13:37, said:

I wouldn't be comfortable with the splinter + 2NT natural agreement, but I agree 100% with the rest.
Jumps as picture bids emphasising the potential of specific suits, non-serious 3NT after a slam interested 3S.

Splinter is a rather common treatment for 1S - 2C - 3D/H. You have to agree with your partner on what these bids mean.

Regarding 2NT natural, most people play 1S-2NT as a four-card GF raise. That's fine. Works well enough.

But a another treatment is to play 2NT as GF 12plus-15, much like in old-fashioned Goren, with 2-3 spades. Then you can use 3C as your 4-card GF raise (3D and 3H are still available for Bergen, if you like Bergen raises). The rationale here is that with 2NT being natural, 2-3 spades, 2C (and 2D for that matter) will almost always show 5-card suits. That makes it MUCH easier to find good minor-suit slams.

Not saying that is what I recommend or generally play, but it's a very good alternative treatment (Fred Gitelman, in particular, is an advocate).

Cheers,
Mike

[miamijd]

 nige1, on 2018-October-22, 16:21, said:

A possible set of 2/1 agreements, similar to Pescetom's, after 1♠ - 2♣ - ??

• 2♦/2♥/2♠/3♣ = NAT. F1.
• 2♠ = NAT Dustbin bid. Might be MIn with only 5-cards. But could be a distributional mountain.
• 2N = BAL 12-14 with lead-value. Or 18-19.
• 3♦/3♥ = SPL. Shortage in bid suit. Perhaps should show 5+ ♣s because responder might have 3-card suit e.g. ♠ K x x x x ♥ A ♦ x ♣ A x x x x x
• 3♠ = NAT. 13-15 HCP. Limited hand setting good 6+ suit e.g. ♠ K Q J x x x x ♥ A x x ♦ K x ♣ x
• 3N = BAL. 15-17 e.g. ♠ A K Q x x ♥ J x x ♦ A J x ♣ x x
• 4♣/4♦/4♥ = (Void Auto-) SPL. Near solid ♠ suit e.g. ♠ A K Q x x x x ♥ A x ♦ J x x x ♣ -. (Alternatively 4♣ might be a picture-bid).
• 4♠ = NAT. Solid suit. Limited, No red control. ♠ A K Q J x x x ♥ Q x x ♦ x x ♣ x

Similarly, after 1♠ - 2♥ - ?? except

• 2♠ = NAT Could be MIN with a second suit.
• 3♣/3♦ = NAT. 5+ cards concentrated or reversing values.

3S needs to be a slammish hand with a solid or near-solid suit. Otherwise you have no bid for that hand. This is pretty standard.

What 4C/D/H mean depend on (a) whether you play splinters at the 3-level (I like them) and (b) what key-card ask you use with minors (I like kickback, some use Minorwood, some stick to 4NT).

Cheers,
mike

[helene_t]

It is common to play this as a splinter, but I prefer it to be natural. It is useful to be able to tell partner that you have substantial extras but not enough to drive towards slam on your own. You obviously won't be able to do that with complex hands, but with 5-5 you could use the jump shift for it.

Btw I prefer 2♦ rather than 2♠ to be the catchall, and this makes the case for 3♦ natural stronger. Obviously this is not standard.

[msjennifer]

Sir,personally ,we do not support using the jump shift as a splinter bid as then one can not use it to show genuine two suiters with game or slam intentions.As a matter of fact the opener NEVER uses a bid as a splinter bid the way we play it.(I am specifically saying this as this column, as said, is for NATURAL bidding).Secondly if the response is 2H and the openers spade suit is not strong then one is only losing genuinely required space if one uses a 4C/D bids as splinters rather than show strong double suiters with no heart support.It certainly is a conventional bid (not NATURAL) and requires prior partnership agreements.

[smerriman]

 msjennifer, on 2018-October-22, 21:09, said:

Sir,personally ,we do not support using the jump shift as a splinter bid as then one can not use it to show genuine two suiters with game or slam intentions.

You just mean slam right? You're already forced to game.

 msjennifer, on 2018-October-22, 21:09, said:

(I am specifically saying this as this column, as said, is for NATURAL bidding).

"Natural bidding" just means systems like 2/1 or SAYC, as opposed to artificial systems (strong club). Not that you have no artificial bids!

[smerriman]

In terms of the 3NT bid, I tend to always open 1NT with 15-17 balanced (sometimes not with 17, but that would be due to valuing it as 18, thus falling into the 2NT rebid range). That seems to leave a jump to 3NT completely unused after a 2/1 sequence.

 P_Marlowe, on 2018-October-22, 01:52, said:

4S is to play, the difference to 2S: 4S tells partner, you want to play 4S,
2S leaves a lot door / contracts open, it is also the default bid, i.e. it
tells partner nothing new.

But you can also show that by bidding 2♠, then 3♠, then 4♠.

The other definitions provided for 4♠ (strong suit, no red control) sound useful.

[pescetom]

 miamijd, on 2018-October-22, 16:51, said:

Splinter is a rather common treatment for 1S - 2C - 3D/H. You have to agree with your partner on what these bids mean.

For us it's just another strong 2-suiter, putting emphasis on quality and the second suit probably 5-card.

 miamijd, on 2018-October-22, 16:51, said:

Regarding 2NT natural, most people play 1S-2NT as a four-card GF raise. That's fine. Works well enough.

But a another treatment is to play 2NT as GF 12plus-15, much like in old-fashioned Goren, with 2-3 spades. Then you can use 3C as your 4-card GF raise (3D and 3H are still available for Bergen, if you like Bergen raises). The rationale here is that with 2NT being natural, 2-3 spades, 2C (and 2D for that matter) will almost always show 5-card suits. That makes it MUCH easier to find good minor-suit slams.

We play 2NT as an invitational raise in spades, still on after interference in which case it is certainly 4-card.
We can GF with an artificial 2C and reveal fit later if necessary.

 miamijd, on 2018-October-22, 16:54, said:

What 4C/D/H mean depend on (a) whether you play splinters at the 3-level (I like them) and (b) what key-card ask you use with minors (I like kickback, some use Minorwood, some stick to 4NT).

Exactly. For us, 4C/D/H are splinters over a major, but 4C over diamonds or 4D over clubs are Kickback (Crosswood).

[kuhchung]

For the major suit rebids, here's what I liked:

1M then 3M: extras, 6+ length, setting trumps. suit is playable for 0-1 losers opposite a stiff
1M then 2M then 4M: extras but bad trumps
1M then 4M: I have never done this but picture sounds good
1M then 3N: 15-17 unbal (stiff in partner's suit)

[rhm]

 helene_t, on 2018-October-22, 20:18, said:

Btw I prefer 2♦ rather than 2♠ to be the catchall, and this makes the case for 3♦ natural stronger. Obviously this is not standard.

If 2♦ is catchall, with which I agree, you do not need 2NT as well. All balanced or semibalnced hands can bid 2♦ first.
Play a rebid of 2NT as showing diamonds. A big advantage is that responder can agree diamonds with 3♦ now.
Obviously this is not standard, but logical and effective.

Rainer Herrmann

[nullve]

If the idea is to play an improved version of "natural", then how about the "symmetric"

1♠-2♣; ?:

2♦ = 4+ D or BAL or 3-suited
...2♥ = catchall (i.e. a 1-under transfer analogue of 2♠ over 1♠-2♣; 2♥)
......2♠ = BAL or 3-suited
......2N+ = 4+ D, 2-suited. Patterning out?
...2♠+: "1-under transfer analogues of 2N+ over 1♠-2♣; 2♥"
......step 1 = BAL or 3-suited
......step 2+ = 4+ D, 2-suited
2♥ = 4+ H, 2-suited
...2♠ = catchall
......2N+ = patterning out?
...2N+ = something
2♠ = 6+ S, 1-suited
2N+ = 4+ C, 2-suited. Patterning out?

? Then Opener has the same amount of space available to describe 2-suiters regardless of what his second suit is.

Something similer can be played over 1♥-2♣, but then there will be fewer H+S 2-suiters to describe.

[rhm]

 nullve, on 2018-October-27, 04:45, said:

If the idea is to play an improved version of "natural", then how about the "symmetric"

1♠-2♣; ?:

2♦ = 4+ D or BAL or 3-suited
...2♥ = catchall (i.e. a 1-under transfer analogue of 2♠ over 1♠-2♣; 2♥)
......2♠ = BAL or 3-suited
......2N+ = 4+ D, 2-suited. Patterning out?
...2♠+: "1-under transfer analogues of 2N+ over 1♠-2♣; 2♥"
......step 1 = BAL or 3-suited
......step 2+ = 4+ D, 2-suited
2♥ = 4+ H, 2-suited
...2♠ = catchall
......2N+ = patterning out?
...2N+ = something
2♠ = 6+ S, 1-suited
2N+ = 4+ C, 2-suited. Patterning out?

? Then Opener has the same amount of space available to describe 2-suiters regardless of what his second suit is.

Something similer can be played over 1♥-2♣, but then there will be fewer H+S 2-suiters to describe.

Of course you can move to a completely artificial system after 2/1 game forcing.
In the end it will not be much different to a relay system.
Playing natural is not space efficient.

I prefer a compromise.

Responders 2/1 responses show 5 cards in hearts and diamonds and 2♣ denies 5 cards in the other suits, so is either a club suit or anything else including if you like Jacoby type hands but .
Over responders first bid I employ a switch bid.
The next highest bid shows a balanced or semi-balnced or a minimum hand.
2NT shows the suit which gets lost by the next highest bid.
That way opener will repsond ,most often with the next highest bid.

Responder rebids are now, say after 1♥-2♣-2♦

Two of openers major does not promise 3 card support but is simply a waiting bid to let opener describe his hand further and bid a 4 card side suit or 2NT (with 5332 or sometimes 5422 with strong doubletons and a poor 4 card suit).
Two in the other major shows at least 5 clubs. Opener is expected to bid 3♣ with Hxx or better. (If you need better support bid openers major)
Since responder has denied 5 cards in diamonds you can play that 3♦ agrees openers major with a Jacoby like hand.

This is space efficient

Rainer Herrmann