[kuhchung]

omg passsssssss

[661_Pete]

Tramticket, on 2018-October-15, 02:45, said:

Hi Pete, what trump holding would you like to hold for your penalty double of a four-level pre-empt? Given that the opening bid is likely to be an eight-card suit, this will only leave five other trumps to be shared between three hands. on rare occasions you might hold all five missing trumps, but even then declarer will hold three more than you. This all goes to prove that you might have to wait a long time before making a successful penalty double of a four-level pre-emopt based on long a strong trumps. The 1M, 4M operates much the same as an opening 4M. Now the opponents have a likely 10-card fit and there is even less chance that you have a trump stack.

miamijd, on 2018-October-15, 14:54, said:

Pete, I'm sorry, but I would say that less than 1% of expert players would agree with you. When the opponents preempt at the four-level (either with a 4-level opening bid or on an auction like this one) X is card-showing. With an unlikely trump stack, you just pass and take your plus score unless you have a true rock-crusher.

Yes - you're probably both right. I was thinking more about a double after a more conventional auction leading up to 4♥ or 4♠ - rather than a pre-empt. In this situation I would pass.

The problem about a take-out after an immediate pre-empt at the 4-level, is that it puts your partner in a real quandary if he/she is really weak and with no suit to call - especially at the five level! I would prefer not to put them in that position. I would usually pass even if I have a strong hand (if I have stoppers in the opponent's suit I might risk 4NT - but very rarely). A pre-empt is designed to damage the opposition's chances of reaching a contract - and it often succeeds! Be content to get our 50/100 points and leave it at that!

[apollo1201]

661_Pete, on 2018-October-18, 03:54, said:

The problem about a take-out after an immediate pre-empt at the 4-level, is that it puts your partner in a real quandary if he/she is really weak and with no suit to call - especially at the five level! I would prefer not to put them in that position.

That is why with a weakish balanced hand partner will usually let the double and not take it out. X showed cards and decent support for other suits, so partner will only bid if he thinks he can make, otherwise his moderate strength and yours should be enough to set declarer.

Weak unbalanced should probably take out as their lengths means doubler’s honors will score less tricks in defense, as opps will be short, and also their shape combined with support in partner’s hand strongly improve their chances of making a high-level contract.

The issue is very weak hands with no shape. Ihad once a huge hesitation with an ugly ugly hand like
xxx
xxx
Qxxx
Jxx

All red, MPs, partner Xed 4H. I passed, crossing fingers. We scored -790 but got a good mark vs all the 800s 😃

In the given hand partner is likely void, so likely won’t let the X. But it seems lots are Xing and praying.

[dokoko]

The_Badger, on 2018-October-14, 05:26, said:

I'd rather collect 50s than put partner on the spot. The last thing I want is the opponents collecting 100/200s. The whole hand could be something like...

---

I prefer taking 50 instead of conceding 590. If after my double West plays me for all the trumps, my double will have lost 640 pts if partner leaves it in, 850 if he takes it out to 4♠.

[phntmshark]

Original pass is atrocious and now you are paying the price. You cannot have the strong hand you actually have, and therefore partner cannot leave your double in at the 4 level