[HardVector]

 mikeh, on 2018-October-05, 10:24, said:

Maybe AKQxx AKJxx Ax x opposite x xx Jxxxx xxxxx, altho even here 4H has some play and not everyone would open 2C.

So, I'm guessing that your post is centered around this idea. You recommend that this is a 1s opener, I disagree. I'd open 2c, rebid 2s. If partner shows a bust, however, I would NOT put the onus on a bust partner to continue bidding after 3h, though, I'd bid 4h. 3h, as we've already agreed, is a stopping point. Say's I can only take the 9 tricks I promised by opening 2c. Pick a suit and I'll take my 9 tricks and move on. Opening this 1s is asking for a p-p-p continuation when 4h is a slam dunk.

Now, make the 2 suits minors, and I'll open at the one level.

[mikeh]

 HardVector, on 2018-October-05, 12:25, said:

So, I'm guessing that your post is centered around this idea. You recommend that this is a 1s opener, I disagree.

what part of my post gave you that idea? While I am one of the more conservative 2C openers I know, I would see this as a minimum 2C opening bid, precisely because all I need is a tripleton in one major to have some play for game.

Make it AKQxx AKJx Ax xx, and same hcp, but roughly a trick weaker, and I open 1S. Make it AKQxx AKJx Axx x, and I am on the fence, and suspect that I'd open 2C if vulnerable and 1S otherwise (at imps), and I play some science with 5=4 major hands which would make it a bit easier than perhaps some others might find it (I can distinguish between 4 and 5 card heart suits on the second round).

You seem to read my posts in a manner that meshes with your views, rather than trying to understand that I'm trying to express my views, which seem in fact to be different from yours. Anyway, I suspect that we'll simply agree to disagree.

[smerriman]

 HardVector, on 2018-October-04, 15:32, said:

After you've made the negative, you are not obliged to bid again. 3h can be passed.

It may be playable, but it's certainly not standard. Every reference online I can find about cheaper minor second negative says a new suit by opener is forcing:

https://www.betterbr...ndard200507.pdf

Quote

The only time responder can pass below game after making a negative rebid is if opener rebids the same suit.

https://www.larryco....-opening-part-2

Quote

After the "double negative," if opener bids a new suit, that is forcing.

http://www.bridge7.com/xbric5.aspx

Quote

Once you have bid your cheapest minor, you may pass if partner next rebids the same suit. But if partner bids a new suit you must bid again..

[HardVector]

I don't want to get off track here, the title of this is why are good hands so hard to bid. I don't want to get into what is a 2c opener or not. You've clearly stated that 2c is forcing to 3h...except when it's not. Let's leave it at that.

Good hands are hard to bid because people have not clearly defined A) what is a negative hand, and B) how do I show that negative hand, and C) if I don't show a negative, what do bids after that show and are they forcing?

A) I've usually gone with the understanding that a negative hand is a hand that has no ace, king or 2 queens. In other words, you don't have a card that is a clear trick. Subsequent bidding by the opener may change the valuation of your hand, but for now, it stinks.

B) There have been a number of suggestions already, I'm not going to rehash them.

C) Once you have denied a negative, you are in a game forcing auction. There is now no reason to jump the bidding unless you have something special or unusual.

On the original hand in question, you have 2 queens, it is NOT a negative hand opposite a 2c opener. Calling it a negative, now puts you in a position that further bids after that are difficult because you have lied to your partner and are now attempting to rectify it. I would bid the hand as a positive, then simply raise 3h to 4h to show a minimum positive. Now you have shown your hand and partner can bid further.

[HardVector]

 smerriman, on 2018-October-05, 13:45, said:

It may be playable, but it's certainly not standard. Every reference online I can find about cheaper minor second negative says a new suit by opener is forcing:

https://www.betterbr...ndard200507.pdf



https://www.larryco....-opening-part-2



http://www.bridge7.com/xbric5.aspx

Thanks for the references, I stand corrected.

[msjennifer]

Sirs,please pardon me for entering the EXPERT area, which I am not.However I humbly feel that my suggestion (and it is only a suggestion) may possibly be worth a at least a cursory look.We dislike the ambiguous 2D "waiting bid " reply.We use the 2D bid as showing less than 8HCP AND/OR less than one and half "Tricks"'A second denial shows less than 3 HCP.With a few regular partners I play the "BLUE TEAM CLUB" bids as made on their strong 1C opening which, of course all experts know.

[lorantrit]

About the only possible bids are 4♥ and 5♥. The latter could lead to down one. Much as I like 5♥, I might bid only 4♥ depending on the form of the game, how the day was going, and who is vul. With a weak pard, 4♥ for sure.