[ahydra]

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IMPs, vul vs not. Opps are playing 5cM weak NT.

What's the difference here between double and 1NT (no Snapdragon/etc agreed)? What would you call?

Thanks,

ahydra

[FelicityR]

I would pass. The hand looks like a misfit. The auction's still live. The last thing you want to do is to encourage partner, especially vulnerable.

[Cyberyeti]

FelicityR, on 2018-August-16, 04:15, said:

I would pass. The hand looks like a misfit. The auction's still live. The last thing you want to do is to encourage partner, especially vulnerable.

Depends to some extent on the nature of your overcalls (ours are VERY sound particularly when non exclusive), but in general, you probably don't want to be in this auction opposite what most people consider to be an overcall.

[HardVector]

ahydra, on 2018-August-16, 03:48, said:

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IMPs, vul vs not. Opps are playing 5cM weak NT.

What's the difference here between double and 1NT (no Snapdragon/etc agreed)? What would you call?

Thanks,

ahydra

If you haven't talked about this, then double should be penalty for spades and 1nt should show stoppers and a desire to play there. Of course, the penalty double will come up so rarely that it's not worth keeping, which is why most people turn it into something else. It's really only good to reveal someone who is psyching a spade bid.

As to what I would do with this hand, your title says it all. You have a "Good defensive hand". What you do with defensive hands is defend. Let them play it and try to make whatever they end up in.

[gszes]

there is a risk 1s may get passed out since west is a passed hand BUT can we really expect to make much if south does not have extra values? pass for now seems sound a more interesting question might be what to do if it goes 1s p p x or 1s p 2s x:))))

[rmnka447]

Playing against someone playing 5cM and weak NT, your best action is pass.

Because balanced minimum hands are opened 1 NT and balanced 15-17 hands are opened 1 of a minor followed by a NT rebid, the nature of 1 of a minor hands is changed considerably. 65% of the time, the person opening 1 of a minor is going to have a 15+ HCP balanced or distributional hand. (That compares with minor openers for people playing strong NTs only being 15+ about 25% of the time.)

So 1 ♠ is very unlikely to be passed out.

[nekthen]

Double indicates 3 card heart support
1NT is presumably a balanced hand I would say about 8-11 and I guess 2 hearts
The choices is between pass and 2c and I vote pass with no liking for partners inevitable 2H bid

[msjennifer]

Some questions arise in my mind. 1)Can not be the third hand 1D opening be a minimal one and prepared one ? 2)if I pass now will I get a chance to express my values again and even so, will my partner presume as many values ? 3) Will he not be at a disadvantage in finding out the correct defence if opponents buy the contract.
S-QJxx-D-K1098 AND C-Kxxxx are good nine HCP. After an intervention, we,after having passed once, raise partners overcall with xx if there are useful cards outside.If one bids a NT now partner will take us for at most a singleton card in his suit and act accordingly.I consider myself an aggressive bidder and hence my bid will be 1NO TRUMP and not a negative double or PASS.This bid will ,I feel, express my hand well enough.Would one PASS if RHO had passed ? BY THE WAY our overcalls may be any where between 8 to 15 HCP and hence this hand warrants an appropriate bid from me ( with 8 or more HCP.).

[Winstonm]

First, I think at imp scoring it is somewhat overthinking the problem to factor in 3rd hand passing 1S - imps is more about game bidding that missing a 1-level partial that rates to be missed at both or most tables.

Second, what "values" do you want to show - the majority of your hand is defensive values in the opponents suits. The best way to defend is to pass. In my book and IMHO, this falls into the WTP? category. Sometimes normal action doesn't work out - that doesn't mean it was wrong.

[maartenxq]

ahydra, on 2018-August-16, 03:48, said:

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IMPs, vul vs not. Opps are playing 5cM weak NT.

ahydra

PASS! See what happens, if opponents are not careful they can come to some harm. If they end in 1 nt I may bid. Low suit contract I will defend without dbl for the same reason.

Maarten Baltussen

[thawp66]

nekthen, on 2018-August-26, 10:20, said:

Double indicates 3 card heart support
1NT is presumably a balanced hand I would say about 8-11 and I guess 2 hearts
The choices is between pass and 2c and I vote pass with no liking for partners inevitable 2H bid

Interesting dichotomy; msjennifer raises with xx. Nek plays support x’s so a raise would presumably show 4. I think best use of x is !h Qx or better doubleton.
I would pass. 2nd choice is 2!c.

[RD350LC]

ahydra, on 2018-August-16, 03:48, said:

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IMPs, vul vs not. Opps are playing 5cM weak NT.

What's the difference here between double and 1NT (no Snapdragon/etc agreed)? What would you call?

Thanks,

ahydra

I will give you three choices as to what I would call. They are pass, pass and pass. With no fit for partner, and less than an opening bid, there is not even the slightest inkling of a bid here.

[ahydra]

Thanks all. At the table I doubled, the idea was that since 1NT would suggest 2-card heart support (maybe a singleton like 4144, but certainly not a void), double should be good defence looking to penalise opponents - I can trust partner to have a sensible overcall when vulnerable. 2C as suggested by thawp66 should, I feel, have heart tolerance since I'm a passed hand.

Unfortunately partner was not on the same wavelength:

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I'm not convinced partner's 2H bid was particularly wise given that I'd suggested a misfit, but no doubt if I passed she would have passed also. She went six off on what is probably the biggest defensive crossruff I have ever seen. We can beat 2m, but if one of us doubled EW might have found their 4H contract

ahydra

[bluechip10]

ahydra, on 2018-August-16, 03:48, said:

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IMPs, vul vs not. Opps are playing 5cM weak NT.

What's the difference here between double and 1NT (no Snapdragon/etc agreed)? What would you call?

Thanks,

ahydra

I would pass. This will be a nightmare for your side, if you try to play it. Make it a nightmare hand for the opps. Take any plus score, and you will be fine.

[miamijd]

1NT here is a decent 8-11 or so. It absolutely does not suggest heart tolerance. Generally, you will have 1-2 hearts, but a void isn't out of the question. I think 1NT here is possible at MPs, but at IMPs, I would pass. If partner has a really good hand (which he could if East opened light in 3d seat), he'll bid again.

Since you are a passed hand, X is probably best played as Snapdragon here (2 hearts and a club suit; take your pick). If you weren't a passed hand, X typically shows an opening hand with 2 or fewer hearts, no good suit, and lacking the stoppers for NT. But as a passed hand, using X to show cards doesn't make a lot of sense.

Cheers,
Mike

[Winstonm]

ahydra, on 2018-August-27, 04:32, said:

Thanks all. At the table I doubled, the idea was that since 1NT would suggest 2-card heart support (maybe a singleton like 4144, but certainly not a void), double should be good defence looking to penalise opponents - I can trust partner to have a sensible overcall when vulnerable. 2C as suggested by thawp66 should, I feel, have heart tolerance since I'm a passed hand.

Unfortunately partner was not on the same wavelength:

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I'm not convinced partner's 2H bid was particularly wise given that I'd suggested a misfit, but no doubt if I passed she would have passed also. She went six off on what is probably the biggest defensive crossruff I have ever seen. We can beat 2m, but if one of us doubled EW might have found their 4H contract

ahydra

I think your analysis stopped a bit short. We trust partner to have a reasonable overcall - fine - but do we really want to play 1S doubled, which is just a likely, if not more so, than a bailout bid on their part, when partner has a simple overcall without extras?