[cencio]

With a 6 5 hand, with 6 cards in the minor and 5 in the major. Is there a rule to open in the 5th or in the 6th suit?

[FelicityR]

The rule is usually to open your longer suit first BUT rules are there to be broken. I assume many players these days look upon a 5 card major as preferable to a 6 card minor. The three factors I would consider is 1) Can you rebid sensibly whatever partner responds. 2) The high card points in the hands 3) Suit quality

There are two types of big bicolour hands: Ones that just look good distributionally, and ones that look good distributionally and have enough high card points/or good controls to reverse.

"To reverse" simply put effectively means that you are showing partner a better hand by bidding a certain way. (This post is the Novice and Beginner forum so I am unaware whether you are familiar with 'reverses')

[Cyberyeti]

cencio, on 2018-July-05, 11:26, said:

With a 6 5 hand, with 6 cards in the minor and 5 in the major. Is there a rule to open in the 5th or in the 6th suit?

Btw in English that's known as a 2 suiter rather than bicolor. Do you mean big as "lots of cards" or "lots of points", most would assume you mean the latter.

There is some argument about this, if you're strong enough to reverse, or have both blacks and the whole virtue of the hand isn't the spade suit then I think many open the minor.

You will get arguments about hands like x, AJ10xx, x, AK10xxx, some people will do one thing, some the other, I think more people in the US than in the UK will open 1♥.

[TylerE]

I always open the major on these hands, even 5-7. Modern systems are just not built to back into a 5 card major... you'll never get there.

[cencio]

Someone suggests to count losers. If there are <5 losers open minor and open major if >5.

[pescetom]

TylerE, on 2018-July-05, 12:17, said:

I always open the major on these hands, even 5-7. Modern systems are just not built to back into a 5 card major... you'll never get there.

There are some modern systems that still have a fairly natural basis and can get you back into the major, but they aren't what most people on BBO are playing (but someone who says "bicolor" maybe yes).

Another important factor to consider is whether their might be a chance of slam in the minor only, or in any case better than the major, because it's even harder to get back into the minor.

[pescetom]

This hand came up just minutes later
Substitute ♥ with a minor, playing semi-natural methods we would still not open ♠.
bicolor on steroids

[TylerE]

pescetom, on 2018-July-05, 14:44, said:

This hand came up just minutes later
Substitute ♥ with a minor, playing semi-natural methods we would still not open ♠.
bicolor on steroids

Not going to look very clever when spades are 3-1 or the A is in ♥.

[ahydra]

I like to open the major if not strong enough to reverse, otherwise open the minor and rebid the major twice (if possible, which it usually is even if sometimes that's at the 4-level).

ahydra

[msjennifer]

If we are dealt such a hand then it is quite likely that the opponents hands are also similarly dealt.Since 2D opening is played as multi one can play 2H and 2S openings for such hands.The HCP required for this purpose may be upto 16 .With 17 or more one can possibly open in the minor and then make a Reverse bid in the major .Of course the quality of strength in each of the two as also the losers in each suit etc will have to be borne in mind and discussed earlier since these are not demarketed in any text book very clearly.

[nullve]

I've seen top Italian pairs use the jump reverse (e.g. 3♥ over 1♦-1♠) on 5-6 hands not strong enough for a reverse.

msjennifer, on 2018-July-06, 02:34, said:

If we are dealt such a hand then it is quite likely that the opponents hands are also similarly dealt.

It's less likely than if we're dealt a less distributional hand, but if our hand is 5-6, then the most frequent distribution around the table is actually one where the remaining hands are balanced. For example, if our hand is 0562, the most frequent distribution around the table is one where two hands are 4324 and he remaining one 5233.

[aawk]

Holding a 56xx 5x6x 5xx6 x56x x5x6 or xx56 pattern its best to open the 5 card unless you can bid twice revers. This means at least 18 HCP or 16-17 HCP no A, K or Q in a singleton or Qx in a doubleton.

If you hold less than 16 with a very bad 5 card major (9xxxx or worse) you can bid it like a 4-6 pattern (must be in agreement with your partner though).

[miamijd]

When your five-card major is spades, it's easy enough to open your six-card minor. You can then hope to bid spades twice at minimum levels to show your hand.

The trouble comes when your major is hearts. Now if you open your minor, you likely will have a problem with your rebid, because 2H will be a reverse showing extra strength. There are two ways to handle this.

The first way is to open 1H with hands that aren't strong enough for a reverse, and 1m otherwise (reversing into 2H and then bidding H again).

The second way is to agree with your partner that a solid minimum 5-6 with H and a minor is strong enough to bid 1m and follow up with 2H and 3H. With a real dog of an opener (poor suit quality), you either open 1H or else pass and hope to come in later with a two-suited bid.

Both ways have their advantages and disadvantages. For what it's worth, I strongly prefer the second method, but as this is a Novice forum, I would suggest that beginners/intermediate players use the first method. (it's simpler and easier to understand as the auction develops).

Cheers,
Mike

[maartenxq]

cencio, on 2018-July-05, 11:26, said:

With a 6 5 hand, with 6 cards in the minor and 5 in the major. Is there a rule to open in the 5th or in the 6th suit?

My rule with a partner I know says open your long suit. A reverse major bid has been agreed to be strong and/or great distribution (56) or better. In most cases partner will be able to infer what I have from the bidding. If i have weak 56 there will be a lot of bidding around. Particularly in these cases it is very important to get your distribution known to partner so he can decide how to proceed. If you don't partner grabs in the dark eg:

1 ♠ - 2 ♥- p - 2 ♥
3 ♣ - 4 ♥- p - ?

If partner passes you will have to decide knowing nothing of ps hand. Maybe they are down, maybe we have a good save etc.

Maarten Baltussen

[pescetom]

miamijd, on 2018-July-06, 12:46, said:

The second way is to agree with your partner that a solid minimum 5-6 with H and a minor is strong enough to bid 1m and follow up with 2H and 3H. With a real dog of an opener (poor suit quality), you either open 1H or else pass and hope to come in later with a two-suited bid.

That's exactly how it is bid in a typical Italian 5cM system and as you said, there is no issue when major is spades.