[dickiegera]

15 -17 NT

---

Before the 2NT overcall for minors I was considering bidding 3♣ puppet stayman however after 2NT bid

I really did not know what to do. I bid 3♣ hoping and partner ended up playing a 4-3 fit in HEARTS going down.

What should have been bid by South?


Thank you

[Winstonm]

I would double, which, for me, would indicate a desire to penalty double at least one of overcaller's suits.

[steve2005]

Double if they bid clubs hopefully partner can double it.

[dsLawsd]

What was the Vulnerability?
X is the usual choice, but V vs. NV I like 3NT.
Partner still has a call for the final decision on the other possible
Vul states.

And it might depend upon the form of scoring and the state of your game to that point.

[FelicityR]

Double for me. There's a chance -300 might not compensate the +400 of a non-vulnerable game, though it'll be rather silly to bid 3NT and watch the opponents take the first five ♣ tricks. Take the money and run, I say primarily as a rubber bridge player. There's more chance this going for a -500 than -300 and partner must be made aware that we have the majority of the points.

[ggwhiz]

Double is the choice at all colours.

On this hand, if they bid 3♣ partner can double and if not, pass it to see if you can as they would if next hand bids 3♦. Your double promises another bid and however it plays out the information exchanged about the n/s minor suits at the 3 level will help a lot.

With your shape and bad splits looming I would not be confident of making 3nt opposite a minimum 1nt opener. Especially if next had bid 3♣ and partner could NOT double it. If that happened I would still double and expect us to lead trumps early and often.

[neilkaz]

ggwhiz, on 2018-June-17, 09:04, said:

Double is the choice at all colours.

On this hand, if they bid 3♣ partner can double and if not, pass it to see if you can as they would if next hand bids 3♦. Your double promises another bid and however it plays out the information exchanged about the n/s minor suits at the 3 level will help a lot.

With your shape and bad splits looming I would not be confident of making 3nt opposite a minimum 1nt opener. Especially if next had bid 3♣ and partner could NOT double it. If that happened I would still double and expect us to lead trumps early and often.

100% agreement with this post for me.

[wuudturner]

First, I'll challenge your initial plan.

4333 hands tend to not take extra tricks in suit contracts. They play rather poorly in fact. So my plan, had RHO never interfered would have been a simple 3NT. Yes, we might miss a major suit fit. But so what? If we do have a major suit fit, it will be a source of tricks in 3NT, often just as many tricks in 3NT as in a heart or spade game.

So a perfectly balanced hand, with nice spot cards as held here will often want to play in a 9 trick game more than a 10 trick game. Just blasting game here makes them guess what to lead too. In fact, many is the time when I find myself in 3NT with a blind auction like 1NT-3NT, yet a fit in some suit, and they lead my suit! So I'll argue the best plan should have been simple. Don't tell the opponents anything about your hand. Just blast. 3NT is a game try. Let them try to set partner, but my bets would all have been on partner making 3NT.

But here, your pesky opponents got in the way. (Got to do something about those opponents. Why do they do this, just when we put up a big sign saying that we probably own the hand?) In fact, their 2NT, suggesting that any suit contract will probably see bad splits, also suggests that your target should not be some potential 4-3 fit, which is just asking for trouble when no ruffs in the short hand are available.

The problem is people want to bid. We have a lot of points, so I need to bid to tell partner what I have. There is one alternative to making a bid, that is, make a call. Double. This suggests the ability to hurt them in at least one of their suits. You can surely do that, in diamonds. Yes, I admit that they might bid 3♣. If partner cannot double them in a club contract, then you will need to guess what to do. But that is later. For now, this hand can announce the good possibility they have bitten off too much, wanting to play in a 9 trick contract.

A good rule that a friend of mine has used for years - "Flat hands defend".

[gszes]

at these colors or favorable I would x with this type of hand (or better) as long as I felt SLAM was not reasonable. We are a heavy favorite to hammer these (I gotta bid something) opps so let's take advantage of the situation. If p cannot x 3c it will make me sweat some with this hand but (when I x again) at least we know the opps are limited to a 8 card club fit and with any luck repeated club leads will save the day for us and give us a decent penalty.

[tritonium]

dickiegera, on 2018-June-16, 18:38, said:

15 -17 NT

---

Before the 2NT overcall for minors I was considering bidding 3♣ puppet stayman however after 2NT bid

I really did not know what to do. I bid 3♣ hoping and partner ended up playing a 4-3 fit in HEARTS going down.

What should have been bid by South? I would have bid 3NT and hoped.


Thank you

[miamijd]

With both NV double stands out. Same at favorable. At unfavorable at IMPs, I'd still X. Unfavorable at MPs, however, I would just bid 3NT, because chances are you can make game. If East knows what he's doing, you won't set him 4.

Cheers,
mike

[nullve]

Is 3N really "to play" here?

[gordontd]

nullve, on 2018-June-18, 02:34, said:

Is 3N really "to play" here?

What else would it be?

[dickiegera]

gszes, on 2018-June-17, 14:22, said:

at these colors or favorable I would x with this type of hand (or better) as long as I felt SLAM was not reasonable. We are a heavy favorite to hammer these (I gotta bid something) opps so let's take advantage of the situation. If p cannot x 3c it will make me sweat some with this hand but (when I x again) at least we know the opps are limited to a 8 card club fit and with any luck repeated club leads will save the day for us and give us a decent penalty.

Thank you. I believe that double is best bid here, down 4 at least on trump leads.

NEW QUESTION

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Change south [My hand] how would we bid to find our 4-4 heart fit?

[P_Marlowe]

dickiegera, on 2018-June-18, 06:51, said:

Thank you. I believe that double is best bid here, down 4 at least on trump leads.

NEW QUESTION

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Change south [My hand] how would we bid to find our 4-4 heart fit?

You wont.

Double is still the best bid, ..., you are bal., partner is bal.
they have at best a 8 card fit, take the money.

[Cyberyeti]

P_Marlowe, on 2018-June-18, 06:56, said:

You wont.

Double is still the best bid, ..., you are bal., partner is bal.
they have at best a 8 card fit, take the money.

Unfortunately partner's actually got AJ10x, KQxx, Jx, Axx and the money turns out to be a double game swing in the - column.

Yes double initially is OK, but if partner doesn't double their 3m, pull rather than double.

[Joe_Old]

dickiegera, on 2018-June-18, 06:51, said:

Thank you. I believe that double is best bid here, down 4 at least on trump leads.

NEW QUESTION

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Change south [My hand] how would we bid to find our 4-4 heart fit?

Think in terms of an "impossible double."

Pass at your first opportunity. This says that you do not have a penalty double of either minor. If partner can't double the continuation bid by Advancer, then a double by you (Responder) asks for a four card major and promises values sufficient to play at the 3 level (you can raise partner's bid to game at your next opportunity).

I don't know how widespread this treatment is, but I play it in my regular partnerships as part of a number of "impossible bid" situations.

[maartenxq]

dickiegera, on 2018-June-16, 18:38, said:

15 -17 NT

---

Thank you

What kind of biding box you use? One without red cards?

Maarten Baltussen

[Cyberyeti]

Joe_Old, on 2018-June-18, 07:30, said:

Think in terms of an "impossible double."

Pass at your first opportunity. This says that you do not have a penalty double of either minor. If partner can't double the continuation bid by Advancer, then a double by you (Responder) asks for a four card major and promises values sufficient to play at the 3 level (you can raise partner's bid to game at your next opportunity).

I don't know how widespread this treatment is, but I play it in my regular partnerships as part of a number of "impossible bid" situations.

What are you going to do if partner bids 3♠ ?

It should be 4-4 in the majors if you play this style

[ggwhiz]

dickiegera, on 2018-June-18, 06:51, said:

Change south [My hand] how would we bid to find our 4-4 heart fit?

Unless the ops are crazed minor suit finesse(s) lose and majors split badly. 50-50 white games are pretty much take it or leave it and you have to stop thinking 10pts and a 4-4 M fit (if it even exists) = game without taking the bidding into consideration.

I also play that pass (2nt is forcing on my lho) followed by double shows competitive values with no clear direction with the fully discussed agreement that if I had a pure penalty double of either minor I would have doubled at my first turn.

Rarely partner with a max and both majors or a 5-bagger can get us to game or at least have a better than average shot at doing the right thing. No, it is not foolproof at all but this hand/shape is extremely awkward and if pard can't save the day, I don't think we can make game.