[FelicityR]

A friend (intermediate level) asked me for advice on opening 1NT with 5332 hands with a five card major and I responded that all experts these days open 1NT whether it is a weak or a strong no-trump. (I might add that I looked for a definitive answer on BBO and Google before replying to her and read a few articles by Larry Cohen, Marty Bergen, Andrew Robson, etc. to name but a few. But I felt a bit short-changed as it didn't go into more detail.)

I was thinking do you always open 1NT irrespective of the position at the table or the vulnerability?

Let's say you are in third position and have either a 12-14 point hand or even a 15-17 hand. Partner has already passed so the likelihood that you will miss a game is far less, even negligible using a weak NT. And by opening 1NT you could miss a good fit (5-3 or even 5-4).

And is suit quality of the major a determining factor too?

I'm sure my friend will be better informed, and I'll be interested in your replies too.

[Tramticket]

I play a weak NT. Over the years, I have moved from "never open 1NT with a five card major" to "(almost) always open 1NT with 5332 shape". The BIG advantage is that it is horrid to rebid a five-card suit with 12-14 and 5332 shape. Sequences such as 1♠, 2♣; 2♠ promise a six-card suit (even in our four-card major system).

Position at the table: I might choose to open a five-card major in 3rd seat if I hold a poor 5332 12-count, rather than risk a penalty double of 1NT. In this case I am probably going to pass partner's response.

Suit Quality: I might treat an exceptional five-card suit (with at least three honours) as a six-card suit.

[Edit: corrected typo]

[apollo1201]

I play 15-17. These elements especially when several combined push me to open 1NT:
- not 17 HCP (too strong, open 1M and rebid 2NT), rarely 15 (just give up hopes of tiny game)
- scattered values and/or tenaces to protect
- 3 cards in oM
- weak (Kxxxx or worse) or strong (AKQ, AQJ, KQJT...) suit
- doubleton C (rebidding 2D leaves less space especially if you opened 1H)

But we don’t play some Puppet to find back 53 fits

[steve2005]

Tramticket, on 2018-May-30, 03:09, said:

I play a weak NT. Over the years, I have moved from "never open 1NT with a five card major" to "(almost) always open 1NT with 5332 shape". The BIG advantage is that it is horrid to rebid a five-card suit with 12-14 and 5332 shape. Sequences such as 1♠, 2♣; 2♠ promise a six-card suit (even in our four-card major system).

I too have gone from never to fairly often even when playing weal NT.
In 2/1 GF many people play 1♠-2♣-2♠ as only promising 5 and 2N promises stopper in unbid. It is certainly playable as both partners are aware of this.

Computer studies have been down showing always opening 5M332 has an advantage. I dont know if studies were done for both mp and imps.
I would think if you selectively open 1N with 5M you could do better than always opening. Especially if playing Gazzilli.

[StevenG]

Playing a 12-14 NT, Acol style, I usually open the major (unless rebidding it is silly) at MPs (110 beats 90) and 1NT at IMPs where accurate part-score bidding is much less important.

[Shugart23]

steve2005, on 2018-May-30, 05:20, said:

I too have gone from never to fairly often even when playing weal NT.
In 2/1 GF many people play 1♠-2♣-2♠ as only promising 5 and 2N promises stopper in unbid. It is certainly playable as both partners are aware of this.

Computer studies have been down showing always opening 5M332 has an advantage. I dont know if studies were done for both mp and imps.
I would think if you selectively open 1N with 5M you could do better than always opening. Especially if playing Gazzilli.

We almost always open the 5332 hand 1NT, ESPECIALLY if the 5 card suit is Hearts (our range is 12-15)....Interestingly, however, if my partner opens 1NT and I have a weak 5332 hand, I will also ALWAYS bid 2 of the Major to Play...….( we don't use transfers with out weaker opening 1NT bid)….

with a weak 5332 hand opposite a weak NT opening, I think its probably a 50-50 guess as to whether to pass or play 2 of a Major, so I just made a decision a few years ago to just be consistent and play 2 of the Major. (I think it's analogous to a coin flip, where I just decide to always guess Heads)

[pescetom]

steve2005, on 2018-May-30, 05:20, said:

I would think if you selectively open 1N with 5M you could do better than always opening. Especially if playing Gazzilli.

I flirted with selective opening, but decided the gains were marginal and not worth the loss of clarity and the need to maintain traditional bidding structures. Now in my main partnership we open all major 5332 and major-minor 5422 of 15-17 as 1NT with no exceptions. This keeps things clear and consistent and allows us to take full advantage of our 5cM Stayman and to structure our bidding on the assumption that almost all 1M openings are either basic opening 11-14 or strong 18+. So far it seems to work well.

[bravejason]

I like the precision that comes with a NT bid. Responder can immediately judge if the partnership likely belongs in part-score, game, or slam. If you open one of a suit, responder has to hear another bid or two before being able to judge and even then opener’s strength can sometimes be unclear.

[helene_t]

This is a regional thing. Most American experts open 1NT. Most French open 1♠. In many other countries the opinions are divided.

Personally I am happy to play either. Probably it is technically best to be flexible but it puts pressure on your rebid structures if both openings have to cater to 5332 with NT opening strength.

My impression is that opening 1M gives better results, at least with spades. This may not be true against opps such as GIB that tend to make passive leads but I think it is true against human opps. The question is how much I am willing to pay for this in terms of awkward rebid structures. A major cost of opening 1M is that whenever you actually have an unbalanced hand, partner won't be sure. And how much this matters depend on system. A problem with the gib system is that when the auction goes
1♠-2♣
2♠-3♦
3NT-?
responder doesn't know if opener has 5 or 6. This is a long story and depends on other system aspects also, but playing a weak nt system, with 5M332 systematically opened 1NT, would not have this problem.

The only thing I really don't like is opening 1M while having no agreements about how to deal with it.

There are some specific systems that make is awkward to open 1M. Playing weak NT I will be more likely to open 1NT. Also the criteria for when to open 1M differ. In a weak NT system it is mostly about suit quality, in a strong NT system it is more about where the doubleton is, and maybe also about top vs bottom of range.

There's also a case for opening 1♠ with spades but 1NT with hearts.

[VladXV]

Matchpoints - If 1NT is in any way a sane opening, 1NT is the correct opening. It takes out the 1-level, describes your hand nicely, and oppos don't tend to compete.
IMPs, weak 1NT - Always open 1NT because I'll be stuck for a rebid.
IMPs, strong 1NT - Not playing Gazzilli, always, because I'll be stuck for a rebid. Playing Gazzilli, if I prefer the lead to end up in my hand, I'll open 1NT.

[nekthen]

I have come down on the side of opening 1N with 5332 and 5422 hands (except with 9 cards in majors)
I think it is important to use 3♣ as Puppet Stayman in this scenario, this generally makes sure you are in the right game. Part scores are more random as to which is better but there is nothing worse than reaching the wrong game. I like to know that when my partner rebids his suit, he usually has 6 and if he rebids a minor, he is likely to have a singleton somewhere, again a convenient rebid can nullify this e.g. 1S 2C 2D may be a 15-17 hand with xx in hearts, whereas 1S 2D 2S could be hiding a 4 card club suit and an inabilty to bid NT e.g. 5314 and 12-14 count. I also play a 2/1 response as 10+ instead of the old school 8+
There are always hands that make you query your choice and even those that you decide to bid against your own system, but at least you and your partner agree what you should have

[msjennifer]

FelicityR, on 2018-May-30, 02:46, said:

A friend (intermediate level) asked me for advice on opening 1NT with 5322 hands with a five card major and I responded that all experts these days open 1NT whether it is a weak or a strong no-trump. (I might add that I looked for a definitive answer on BBO and Google before replying to her and read a few articles by Larry Cohen, Marty Bergen, Andrew Robson, etc. to name but a few. But I felt a bit short-changed as it didn't go into more detail.)

I was thinking do you always open 1NT irrespective of the position at the table or the vulnerability?

Let's say you are in third position and have either a 12-14 point hand or even a 15-17 hand. Partner has already passed so the likelihood that you will miss a game is far less, even negligible using a weak NT. And by opening 1NT you could miss a good fit (5-3 or even 5-4).

And is suit quality of the major a determining factor too?

I'm sure my friend will be better informed, and I'll be interested in your replies too.

5322as you have given adds to 12 cards only

[msjennifer]

I play Precision most of the time and hence I always open 1Of the 5 card major as opening is limited to 11/15 HCP and 1NT is also 13/15.HCP.As such I do not face any problem.However,Playing a standard system and where one thinks of so to say Preemption one can safely open a 5332 hand with any five card suit as 1NT.The only requirement is that then your Partner must know puppet Stayman or any other method of finding out a five card major suit in Openers hand.With a partner who knows only simple Stayman it is advisable not to open 1NT with a 5 card major.

[Shugart23]

msjennifer, on 2018-May-31, 04:19, said:

I play Precision most of the time and hence I always open 1Of the 5 card major as opening is limited to 11/15 HCP and 1NT is also 13/15.HCP.As such I do not face any problem.However,Playing a standard system and where one thinks of so to say Preemption one can safely open a 5332 hand with any five card suit as 1NT.The only requirement is that then your Partner must know puppet Stayman or any other method of finding out a five card major suit in Openers hand.With a partner who knows only simple Stayman it is advisable not to open 1NT with a 5 card major.

with 5332 and Hearts, you are allowing Opponents to more easily find their Spade fit

[msjennifer]

Shugart23, on 2018-May-31, 04:48, said:

with 5332 and Hearts, you are allowing Opponents to more easily find their Spade fit

We don't mind that.They can also find it if you open 1NT.These days no one is afraid of RHO or LHO S 1NT.There are many conventions available to obstruct opponents 1NT constructively or destructively.Your fears are therefore unjustified.Even if they come in at one spade level we have the gadgets to cope up that also and Lebensohl is just one of them.(Don’t confuse this with the Lebensohl used when partner opens 1NT and opponents intervene..)There are SIX situations where Lebensohl can be used.

[pescetom]

helene_t, on 2018-May-30, 15:49, said:

My impression is that opening 1M gives better results, at least with spades.

My impression is the opposite, but I haven't been using 1NT long enough to be sure. Certainly we are often left to play 1NT when the rest of the field is in a suit, but this seems to work out well in MPs more often than not.

helene_t, on 2018-May-30, 15:49, said:

The question is how much I am willing to pay for this in terms of awkward rebid structures. A major cost of opening 1M is that whenever you actually have an unbalanced hand, partner won't be sure.

Not just awkward but also blunt rebid structures, compared to what is possible when using 1NT. Take the case of a simple 1M-2M raise: if 1M could be 15-17 semi-balanced then you will probably want to play 1M-2M-3m as a Help Suit Game Try or similar, but this is not optimal for one-suited or 18-19 hands where opener is more interested in things like shortages and top honours. Plus of course when the opening hand actually is 15-17 semi-balanced then we can lever the usual set of systems over a 1NT opening, which ensure precise bidding, transfer and well codified defence against interference.

[FelicityR]

msjennifer, on 2018-May-31, 03:54, said:

5322as you have given adds to 12 cards only

Thank you for noticing my error: now edited to 5332

[msjennifer]

Shugart23, on 2018-May-31, 04:48, said:

with 5332 and Hearts, you are allowing Opponents to more easily find their Spade fit

To give you one example.My LHO dealt a 16/18 NT.My partner bid 2D ( ASTRO),I held J10xx,-xxx-Qxx-xxx RHO passed-and I bid 2S confirming four card spades.My LHO passed and partner bid 3D confirming an 8losers hand.RHO passed.and I bid 4S making comfortably.So one NT does not pose a problem at all these days.

[msjennifer]

msjennifer, on 2018-May-31, 07:20, said:

Dear Shugart23,
To give you one example.My LHO dealt a 16/18 NT.My partner bid 2D ( ASTRO),I held J10xx,-xxx-Qxx-xxx RHO passed-and I bid 2S confirming four card spades.My LHO passed and partner bid 3D confirming a 5(five) losers hand.RHO passed.and I bid 4S making comfortably.So one NT does not pose a problem at all these days.

[PhilG007]

I prefer opening 1NT simply because you have got the hand off your chest in one bid with regards to points range and distribution.
Also,if partner should operate Stayman,you have a ready made reply Suit quality is also a factor K1098x is quite a decent suit and
could well take more than one trick whereas Kxxxx is a king heading a load of garbage.