[RD350LC]

FelicityR, on 2018-May-01, 08:40, said:

You got what you deserved by opening this hand. It's poor. I'd rather try to come in later with 2NT as an unusual no-trump if allowed to. Any bid now by you now would be move towards 3NT I feel. It's a misfit. Pass quickly. Not all 11 point hands should be opened, and with so many small cards it's a downgrade as far as I am concerned. Just one and a half quick tricks.

I agree 100%. 11 hcp and no aces, so I would deduct one for that. I do not count distribution points until we have a fit-and in this case, it is a misfit.
Pass quickly, before the doubling starts.

[Cyberyeti]

FelicityR, on 2018-May-02, 07:33, said:

My reticence to open is probably due to playing more than 95% rubber bridge and less than 5% club bridge these days. You are probably right in saying I am out of touch, but I am sure that in every book that I have read about light openings, the suit quality in the long suits was paramount.

It's more about nothing wasted in the short suits, and KJx is NOT a short suit, if it had been Jx, K in the majors THEN there's a good reason not to open it.

[heart76]

Tramticket, on 2018-May-02, 01:32, said:

Really? You would bury any chance of a spade contract?

Well that depends on partner's values. At IMPs it's not even a problem.
Are 3H / 3S responses to 2NT opening for the minors looking for a 3-card support with max values to play 4M?

[PhilG007]

Tramticket, on 2018-May-01, 08:31, said:

---

Match Points

You play four-card majors and the 2♥ responder rebid is agreed to be constructive, but not forcing. What, if anything, do you do now?

There is an old bridge adage which says "Let the opponents play the misfits-we'll play the fits" This has the obvious signs of a misfit.
You have offered two suits and partner has rejected both of them. Time to pass and let partner struggle in his 2♥
When partner bids your void be afraid,if he bids it a second time be VERY afraid

[0deary]

For those who pencil in a 4621 as partner then if you didn’t open 1D partner couldn’t open 2H now holding a four card spade suit (it was your 1D bid that activated our 2H problem now) so those who pass the hand out will get a good score anyway

For those who pencil in ~3631 as partner then if you don’t open 1D then it’s a simple 2H from partner and now it’s a clear pass. But I have a lot more bidding knowledge now

Assessing the field is usually far too problematic to try to second guess everyone, but I think its reasonable to assess a few things on this one:

Of my 3055 11hcp most will open 1D and a few will pass, reflecting the postings thus far. Of those who passed one or two will be passed out because partner has the 4621 hand (so can’t open 2H) and the others will play in 2H passed out


If that the right then my MPs will be very good for passing out and the rest will be average poorish for minus two or three

Is it really so hard to hit the 3 Minor target now for a minus one or even a winning make?

As regards partnership style for a 3C bid: yes my thoughts are more from my home village where 3C isn’t forcing and just shows a 5th club, and not from the city of forcing new second suits and two levels

But when I first saw this I thought obvious pass and didn't even expect the Editor to show as news...and if Mr Ace is quite clear I'll happily just shut up now

[NickRW]

I open this hand (2N by preference, if available). Pass now

[rmnka447]

One thing to consider in what you do on this hand is how useful either hand will be for the other hand in any contract bid.

For this hand, any holding responder has in ♥ may not be of any use whatsoever to opener in a minor contract.

OTOH, opener's HCs are very likely to provide some tricks for responder's hand when responder holds something like

♠ xxx
♥ KQxxxx
♦ xx
♣ xx

This consideration is a theme that recurs through hands from time to time. If you think about it, running out of 1 NT to a long suit in a weak hand is one of the variations of this theme. But definitely something useful to think about when it comes up.

[rmnka447]

FelicityR, on 2018-May-02, 07:33, said:

My reticence to open is probably due to playing more than 95% rubber bridge and less than 5% club bridge these days. You are probably right in saying I am out of touch, but I am sure that in every book that I have read about light openings, the suit quality in the long suits was paramount.

Funny, but I see a lot of similar reticence in the really good players that I play with and against. They are aggressive, but pick their spots to do so.

[msjennifer]

When playing a standard system ,before opening this hand I would have considered my rebids.This hand is a weak opening hand .Make the minors majors and there are no problems The diamond suit is weak,Personally ,I,will open this hand 1C .If parner has D iamonds he will bid them.On partners 1H response there is a very convenient rebid of 2C.And if now partners bids 2H which is a nonforcing bid I shall PASS.I do not mind if we miss a 5-3 Diamond fit.Playing Precision this hand is a very easy 1D opener limited to 15HCP maximum and 2+D,over partners bid of 1H there is an easy 2C bid which shows a 5Card suit and a hand not suited for 2C opening.On partners 2H its a simple PASS.However ,I feel, quite a few Precision players may not open this hand .

[Tramticket]

NickRW, on 2018-May-03, 06:37, said:

I open this hand (2N by preference, if available). Pass now

heart76, on 2018-May-02, 12:41, said:

Are 3H / 3S responses to 2NT opening for the minors looking for a 3-card support with max values to play 4M?

I really do not understand a 2NT opening - treating the hand as two-suited. Surely the hand is very useful in support of spades?

heart76: If you are playing a 2NT opening as showing both minors, you have presumably discussed your response structure? It might be useful on this hand if 3♥/♠ showed a five-card suit and was looking for game in hearts / spades, but I very much doubt that this is optimal. You might consider:
- 3♥/♠ as a probe for 3NT shpwing (or denying) a heart / spade stop.
- 3♥/♠ as a slam try in clubs / diamonds respectively (my preference).

I'm sure that others might think of other uses.

[NickRW]

Tramticket, on 2018-May-04, 01:15, said:

I really do not understand a 2NT opening - treating the hand as two-suited. Surely the hand is very useful in support of spades?

It comes down to probabilities. What is the average expectation that partner will hold 5+ spades? What is the average expectation that partner will hold 3+ cards in either minor (note that we don't know for sure in this instance that partner doesn't have 3 clubs in particular)? I agree that there will be times when a 2N opener will be the losing choice (as here - probably), but on the relatively rare times I've had the bid available in a partnership I haven't usually regretted using it.

[MrAce]

NickRW, on 2018-May-04, 04:51, said:

It comes down to probabilities. What is the average expectation that partner will hold 5+ spades? What is the average expectation that partner will hold 3+ cards in either minor (note that we don't know for sure in this instance that partner doesn't have 3 clubs in particular)? I agree that there will be times when a 2N opener will be the losing choice (as here - probably), but on the relatively rare times I've had the bid available in a partnership I haven't usually regretted using it.

This is self serving analysis.
When you have a spade fit you are likely to get game bonus much more often than you will get game bonus on a minor fit.
And you are talking as if only those who plays 2 NT as minors will land in minor part score or game, which is not necessarily the case.
Basically when you open 2 NT with this hand, you are gaining a preemptive value and a slight advantage on finding minor based games, slams or part score. (because those who open 1♦ can also end up finding them). But you are in huge disadvantage when pd has spades and/or in big misfit hands because you have no way to play anything below 3 level.
I am not saying it is a bad thing. Just saying it is not such a huge advantage to open 2 NT as you think of it. Not even mentioning the loss of natural 2 NT opening.

[Phil]

When you find youself in a hole...

[NickRW]

MrAce, on 2018-May-04, 06:21, said:

This is self serving analysis.

Maybe. Perhaps it is more a case of not wanting to type long replies that often don't get read.

Anyway, your comments are fair.