[Ranmit]

So I got the following hand:

KQTxxxxx
AKQxx
Void
Void

Licking my lips, I wait for my turn to bid when the Rho (dealer) very unhelpfully opens with a 1S bid. What should be my bid?
(imps, both vulnerable)

[gordontd]

The first bit is easy - Pass - but what comes later might give you a harder problem.

[Cyberyeti]

gordontd, on 2018-April-23, 06:57, said:

The first bit is easy - Pass - but what comes later might give you a harder problem.

I'd overcall 2♥, if partner has hearts this is a big hand, otherwise it's awful, this way I will at least find out.

[MrAce]

Cyberyeti, on 2018-April-23, 07:04, said:

I'd overcall 2♥, if partner has hearts this is a big hand, otherwise it's awful, this way I will at least find out.

I don't mind what you decide to bid but..No it isn't a big hand if pd has hearts. Not a big hand EVEN If pd holds 4 card hearts.
You have 8 spades and LHO is ruffing too, especially if he has bigger spots than dummy. And guess what? Pd is not guaranteed to hold any hearts at all.
I really hate to comment on 8-5 hands but once RHO opened 1♠, my 8 card suit, in first seat.... I am pretty much done with this auction. Nothing good comes out of it unless pd has his 7-8 card solidish suit and couple hearts for entry to my hand. And I am pretty sure this auction is not dying anytime soon. Who ever buys it, will buy ***** loads of trouble with it. I may miss a 4♥ now and then but overall waiting seems much more profitable in the long run IMO.

[FelicityR]

I've always been told that when there's no convenient call it's always best to pass. Bidding 2♥ could go very seriously wrong when partner assumes his probable spade void is a major asset. If he has 5-6 ♥s it might be, but that's less likely than him holding 2-3♥. The hand could be a total misfit all round, and it's always best to duck out as soon as possible with a misfit. If on the off chance the bidding goes around to partner and he doubles 1♠ as a balance, guess what I am going to do?

[Ranmit]

Thanks for the discussion

The point here is that I am really interested in partner's heart length, his minor suit hCP can be quite meaningless.
If partner has <=3 hrts, 4H isn't likely making.
If partner has 4 hrts, 4H is making.
If partner has 5 hrts, slam is likely.

So a 2h bid is not helpful since it will almost certainly be raised to 3h (spade void) even with a 3 carder hrts which is not helpful.

The advice to pass certainly makes sense, but was wondering if there is any way to find the length of partner's suit (5+ hrts is a possible slam!). Or should I just forget it as a really rally unlikely deal?

[ggwhiz]

The only way to find out partners heart holding is to bid 2♥.

They have a lot of cards that are not spades and I would risk it. LHO has a lot of shape too and the only real danger I can see is if it's a horrible misfit AND lho passes.

[gszes]

2h

It is not that we cannot make game or slam etc etc if we have a small heart fit. There are so many other variables it is scary. We have a decent 5 card suit that makes for a great lead director and who knows what disaster we may avoid by taking
a pro active position now. How is partner going to react in PO seat with say 0166 if we pass? We have no way to guess what may come but we do know how to evaluate our hand in a heart contract but we have not a clue how to evaluate it anywhere else
(though I admit I would not mind the opps playing in spades:))

Another consideration, if we pass and the opps then proceed to a minor suit slam, are we happily letting them play it there because of misfits? I for one would have vastly preferred to have given partner the opportunity to have raised my hearts to some level which would then give me a better chance to decide if a sac looks good or not.