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Do people combine Losing Trick Count when calculating Bergen Raises?
If not, would there be any point to it?
Consider the following;
3♣️ = 9 losers
3♦️ = 8 losers
2NT = 7 losers
Maybe this is normal for some. Im just curious.
On a related matter;
When calculating LTC losers in a hand where you hold four card, or more, Bergen support, would the knowledge that you have at least a nine card fit affect that loser calculation?
For example, in response to a 1♠️ call by partner...
♠️Jxxx
❤️Kx
♦️AQxx
♣️xxx
...would the above 10 count be 8 losers? I presume yes.
Thanks.
D.
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Five Card Majors Bergen Raises and LTC
#1
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Posted 2018-April-05, 13:52
#2
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Posted 2018-April-05, 17:26
A little hint for you, since you posted this in expert forums; Most experts do not like bergen raises unless they play with a client and they have better experience to evaluate their hands than losing trick count BS.
So finding an expert who uses both even seperately is not an easy task, let alone finding one who uses them both together.
You will not find any real expert who uses formulated methods such as LTC, LOTT rule of 123456...They all know them, they sometimes may use them as a guide, but nothing more than that.
So finding an expert who uses both even seperately is not an easy task, let alone finding one who uses them both together.
You will not find any real expert who uses formulated methods such as LTC, LOTT rule of 123456...They all know them, they sometimes may use them as a guide, but nothing more than that.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#3
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Posted 2018-April-06, 06:43
Hi,
The following avoids discussing the merrits of LTC / Bergen Raises, for whatever it is worth,
we do use the LTC to some extend, but dont play Bergen Raises, and I dont consider myself an
expert, there are lots of areas, where I am way below expert strength.
#1.1 The 3M Bergen Raise, is showing a preemptive raise, 9 loosers, i.e. one step higher than
the LTC predicts, the combined hands are making. The justification is, that they wont let you play
on the 2 level, if they have a 8 card fit, i.e. it followes the maxime -1 is good bridge.
#1.2 The stronger 3m Bergen Raise, is showing a (HCP based) invitational raise, 8 loosers
#1.3 The weaker 3m Bergen Raise, is showing a (HCP based) mixed raise, 8.5 loosers
#1.4 The 2NT gameforcing raise, is showing a (HCP based) gameforcing raise, 7- loosers,
usually those hands will tend to be (semi) balanded, the unbalanded gameforcing hands, will
usually go via a Splinter raise, or a delayed game raise.
HCP based: The looser count is not purely due to distribution, the bid is showing a
certaint amount of values
#2 9 card fits, with 5-4 tend to be handeled well, by the LTC.
With kind regards
Marlowe
The following avoids discussing the merrits of LTC / Bergen Raises, for whatever it is worth,
we do use the LTC to some extend, but dont play Bergen Raises, and I dont consider myself an
expert, there are lots of areas, where I am way below expert strength.
#1.1 The 3M Bergen Raise, is showing a preemptive raise, 9 loosers, i.e. one step higher than
the LTC predicts, the combined hands are making. The justification is, that they wont let you play
on the 2 level, if they have a 8 card fit, i.e. it followes the maxime -1 is good bridge.
#1.2 The stronger 3m Bergen Raise, is showing a (HCP based) invitational raise, 8 loosers
#1.3 The weaker 3m Bergen Raise, is showing a (HCP based) mixed raise, 8.5 loosers
#1.4 The 2NT gameforcing raise, is showing a (HCP based) gameforcing raise, 7- loosers,
usually those hands will tend to be (semi) balanded, the unbalanded gameforcing hands, will
usually go via a Splinter raise, or a delayed game raise.
HCP based: The looser count is not purely due to distribution, the bid is showing a
certaint amount of values
#2 9 card fits, with 5-4 tend to be handeled well, by the LTC.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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