Help
if partner opens 1NT which means he has 12-14 points with a balanced hand in ACOL and we have 13-18 points should we use stayman (2c) here in this spot? or just bid 3NT.
thanks
Page 1 of 1
- You cannot start a new topic
Add Reply
stayman and 3NT
MultiQuote
#5
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 10,254
- Joined: 2005-March-18
- Gender:Male
Posted 2018-March-20, 07:33
Hi,
#1 looking for a 44 in a major with 13-15 is sensible, you may only have 25-27
combined HCP, the trump suit adds protection with regards to making.
#2 going direct with 15-17 is sensible, you will have 27-31 combined HCP,
slam is out of the question, and quite often you make the same number of tricks.
#3 going via stayman with 18+, if you discover a fit, you are in the slam zone,
32HCP with a fit, so why not trying to catch the stars?
In this case you need a way to support the major in a forcing manner, usually
bidding 3 of the other major is used, i.e. if opener bids 2H, responders bids 3S
(sometimes 2S is used), showing the forcing raise, or if opener bids 2S
than responder bids 3H.
With kind regards
Marlowe
#1 looking for a 44 in a major with 13-15 is sensible, you may only have 25-27
combined HCP, the trump suit adds protection with regards to making.
#2 going direct with 15-17 is sensible, you will have 27-31 combined HCP,
slam is out of the question, and quite often you make the same number of tricks.
#3 going via stayman with 18+, if you discover a fit, you are in the slam zone,
32HCP with a fit, so why not trying to catch the stars?
In this case you need a way to support the major in a forcing manner, usually
bidding 3 of the other major is used, i.e. if opener bids 2H, responders bids 3S
(sometimes 2S is used), showing the forcing raise, or if opener bids 2S
than responder bids 3H.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#6
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,951
- Joined: 2008-April-30
- Gender:Male
- Location:Sussex, England
Posted 2018-March-20, 11:10
Generally, with at least invitational values (11+), you would think of using Stayman when you have a four card major.
Some people are of the opinion that you're as well off NOT employing Stayman when you have 4=3=3=3 or 3=4=3=3 shape specifically (those shapes tend to play well in NT)
Some people are of the opinion that you're as well off NOT employing Stayman when you have 4=3=3=3 or 3=4=3=3 shape specifically (those shapes tend to play well in NT)
"Pass is your friend" - my brother in law - who likes to bid a lot.
#7
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 14,222
- Joined: 2009-July-13
- Location:England
Posted 2018-March-20, 11:23
If you have lots to spare for 3N and a BAD 4 card major, you might consider just bidding 3N particularly at teams as you should have the points to make it and a 5-0 split in your suit probably won't scupper 3N but might scupper 4M.
#9
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,366
- Joined: 2012-March-18
- Gender:Male
- Location:Illinois
- Interests:Bridge, Golf, Soccer
Posted 2018-March-20, 15:49
All posts so far are correct.
Major suit contracts are normally preferred to 3 NT when you have at least an 8 card fit. So it's most normal to use Stayman after a 1 NT opening to try to find a 4-4 major fit if you have a 4 card Major suit.
You probably wonder why when a Major suit game requires 10 tricks and a NT game only requires 9 tricks. Normally, hands with a Major fit of at least 8 cards usually play a trick better than NT because of "short trump hand" ruffs. In a 5-3 fit, that would mean being able to trump a trick in the hand with 3 trump. In a 4-4 fit, either hand can act as the "short trump" hand for this purpose. So you have a little more flexibility in deciding how to play the hand. The idea of "short trump" ruffs is especially important for newer players to master. As long as declarer can draw the opponents trump, the trumps in the long trump hand will still take tricks whether you trump with them or not. But too often good players will see newer players rushing to try to make ruffs with the small trumps in the long suit hand to disastrous results.
Having a trump suit can provide a greater measure of control to prevent opponents from running long suit tricks in suits where they have control. At a NT contract, declarer must have high cards to prevent that from happening. In deed, most NT contracts are a race between the declarer and defenders to set up long suit tricks to either make the contract or set the contract respectively. OTOH, in suit contracts, the defenders may be able to find ruffs or the trumps break badly which makes the contract more difficult to make.
But, for now, I'd recommend preferring a Major suit contract with a 4-4 or better fit.
Someone pointed out that NT might be better when you hold any 4-3-3-3 hand with a 4 card Major. The above helps explain why this may be. If both hands are 4-3-3-3 with the 4 card suit being the same major, all the side suits in both hands are the same length and neither hand can be the "short trump" hand. So the Major suit contract is unable to make any more tricks than a NT contract because of no "short trump" ruffs.
Major suit contracts are normally preferred to 3 NT when you have at least an 8 card fit. So it's most normal to use Stayman after a 1 NT opening to try to find a 4-4 major fit if you have a 4 card Major suit.
You probably wonder why when a Major suit game requires 10 tricks and a NT game only requires 9 tricks. Normally, hands with a Major fit of at least 8 cards usually play a trick better than NT because of "short trump hand" ruffs. In a 5-3 fit, that would mean being able to trump a trick in the hand with 3 trump. In a 4-4 fit, either hand can act as the "short trump" hand for this purpose. So you have a little more flexibility in deciding how to play the hand. The idea of "short trump" ruffs is especially important for newer players to master. As long as declarer can draw the opponents trump, the trumps in the long trump hand will still take tricks whether you trump with them or not. But too often good players will see newer players rushing to try to make ruffs with the small trumps in the long suit hand to disastrous results.
Having a trump suit can provide a greater measure of control to prevent opponents from running long suit tricks in suits where they have control. At a NT contract, declarer must have high cards to prevent that from happening. In deed, most NT contracts are a race between the declarer and defenders to set up long suit tricks to either make the contract or set the contract respectively. OTOH, in suit contracts, the defenders may be able to find ruffs or the trumps break badly which makes the contract more difficult to make.
But, for now, I'd recommend preferring a Major suit contract with a 4-4 or better fit.
Someone pointed out that NT might be better when you hold any 4-3-3-3 hand with a 4 card Major. The above helps explain why this may be. If both hands are 4-3-3-3 with the 4 card suit being the same major, all the side suits in both hands are the same length and neither hand can be the "short trump" hand. So the Major suit contract is unable to make any more tricks than a NT contract because of no "short trump" ruffs.
#10
- 5-level belongs to me
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 9,128
- Joined: 2004-August-30
- Gender:Male
- Location:Glasgow Scotland
- Interests:Poems Computers
Posted 2018-March-20, 17:53
polarmatt, on 2018-March-20, 06:38, said:
if partner opens 1NT which means he has 12-14 points with a balanced hand in ACOL and we have 13-18 points should we use stayman (2c) here in this spot? or just bid 3NT.
- You lack a 4-card major
- Your shape is (43)33
- Your major is poor quality (e.g. J 4 3 2) -- especially at imps where it is more important to make your game than make overtricks..
#11
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 154
- Joined: 2016-April-22
Posted 2018-March-21, 10:28
rmnka447, on 2018-March-20, 15:49, said:
All posts so far are correct.
Major suit contracts are normally preferred to 3 NT when you have at least an 8 card fit. So it's most normal to use Stayman after a 1 NT opening to try to find a 4-4 major fit if you have a 4 card Major suit.
You probably wonder why when a Major suit game requires 10 tricks and a NT game only requires 9 tricks. Normally, hands with a Major fit of at least 8 cards usually play a trick better than NT because of "short trump hand" ruffs. In a 5-3 fit, that would mean being able to trump a trick in the hand with 3 trump. In a 4-4 fit, either hand can act as the "short trump" hand for this purpose. So you have a little more flexibility in deciding how to play the hand. The idea of "short trump" ruffs is especially important for newer players to master. As long as declarer can draw the opponents trump, the trumps in the long trump hand will still take tricks whether you trump with them or not. But too often good players will see newer players rushing to try to make ruffs with the small trumps in the long suit hand to disastrous results.
Having a trump suit can provide a greater measure of control to prevent opponents from running long suit tricks in suits where they have control. At a NT contract, declarer must have high cards to prevent that from happening. In deed, most NT contracts are a race between the declarer and defenders to set up long suit tricks to either make the contract or set the contract respectively. OTOH, in suit contracts, the defenders may be able to find ruffs or the trumps break badly which makes the contract more difficult to make.
But, for now, I'd recommend preferring a Major suit contract with a 4-4 or better fit.
Someone pointed out that NT might be better when you hold any 4-3-3-3 hand with a 4 card Major. The above helps explain why this may be. If both hands are 4-3-3-3 with the 4 card suit being the same major, all the side suits in both hands are the same length and neither hand can be the "short trump" hand. So the Major suit contract is unable to make any more tricks than a NT contract because of no "short trump" ruffs.
Major suit contracts are normally preferred to 3 NT when you have at least an 8 card fit. So it's most normal to use Stayman after a 1 NT opening to try to find a 4-4 major fit if you have a 4 card Major suit.
You probably wonder why when a Major suit game requires 10 tricks and a NT game only requires 9 tricks. Normally, hands with a Major fit of at least 8 cards usually play a trick better than NT because of "short trump hand" ruffs. In a 5-3 fit, that would mean being able to trump a trick in the hand with 3 trump. In a 4-4 fit, either hand can act as the "short trump" hand for this purpose. So you have a little more flexibility in deciding how to play the hand. The idea of "short trump" ruffs is especially important for newer players to master. As long as declarer can draw the opponents trump, the trumps in the long trump hand will still take tricks whether you trump with them or not. But too often good players will see newer players rushing to try to make ruffs with the small trumps in the long suit hand to disastrous results.
Having a trump suit can provide a greater measure of control to prevent opponents from running long suit tricks in suits where they have control. At a NT contract, declarer must have high cards to prevent that from happening. In deed, most NT contracts are a race between the declarer and defenders to set up long suit tricks to either make the contract or set the contract respectively. OTOH, in suit contracts, the defenders may be able to find ruffs or the trumps break badly which makes the contract more difficult to make.
But, for now, I'd recommend preferring a Major suit contract with a 4-4 or better fit.
Someone pointed out that NT might be better when you hold any 4-3-3-3 hand with a 4 card Major. The above helps explain why this may be. If both hands are 4-3-3-3 with the 4 card suit being the same major, all the side suits in both hands are the same length and neither hand can be the "short trump" hand. So the Major suit contract is unable to make any more tricks than a NT contract because of no "short trump" ruffs.
I very much agree with the above statements. I go so far as to not use stayman when I am 4432, in addition to 4333. I have read that many experts do this.
Page 1 of 1
- You cannot start a new topic
- Add Reply