[debussyl]

Sometimes you play with a casual but advanced pard. Unfortunately you did not have enough time to go over in detail many conventions. You have to relay on good logic and sound judgement to convey the information so that you could reach a reasonably good contract. Here is an example.

IMP game, non-vulnerable

LHO opened 1nt (15 to 17) at 1st seat. Your pard overcalled 2d(DONT, showing dia and a major), followed by 2nt (lebenshol, asking his pard to relay to 3c) from you RHO. What do you do with this holding:

AJxxx
Qxxxx
Q
Qx

[luis]

First of all I check the back of the cards.
Pass and when 3c is passed out I cuebid 4c asking pd to pick a major.

[mike777]

3H pass or correct.

Just competing on this one, not forcing to game. I want my partner to feel free to bid DONT with alot of junky hands NV.

[Double !]

OK, I can see it now, ........someone bid 3♣ over 2NT with the major 2-suiter, and then redoubled when 3♣ was doubled in an attempt to get partner to bid his/her major. However, partner wasn't sure what the 3C bidder was doing, passed 3♣XX and then watched as the defense took a few tricks. (like 8 to 10 tricks)

Please say this did not happen!

[Gerardo]

Double, bid your second suit (std meaning when DONT overcall is overcalled/doubled)

[HeartA]

luis, on Apr 25 2005, 02:43 PM, said:

First of all I check the back of the cards.
Pass and when 3c is passed out I cuebid 4c asking pd to pick a major.

I would do the same.

[shoeless]

I'm with Mike on this one - think 3h is most obvious for pick up pard - not sure I would enjoy defending 2nt X'd.

[debussyl]

I see three different answers so far:

1. Pass (intend to bid 4c over anticipated 3c);
2. 3h
3. double

Among those three choices, I think double is the worst -- this should be a penalty double (or at least a good part of your casual partners would interpret that as a penalty without prior agreement). You may not enjoy defending 2ntx as the final contract.

I do not like 3h either. I have two questions with this call

1. What do you do with a single-suited hearts? Sure you may pass and bid 3h over anticipated 3c passing aroud to you if you have a weak hand and long heart suit. But you may want to bid 3h right away with relatively good hand and long heart suit (a non-forcing, constructive bid).

2. Because this 3h is ambiguous, you may either play 3h (which might be a bad contract, if your pard expects you have a long heart suit but you had the actual holding), or your pard corrects to 3s (could be a wrong correction if your 3h was really based on long heart suit). Also what do you do over his 3s? Either way, you may play a wrong contract, or lose a game contract.

In terms of pass and then bid 4c, I kind of like the passing part but not 4c part.
The only question I have with this treatment is why hang your pard if he happens to bid 2d with a bad hand -- he promises shape, not necessarily strength with his 2d overcall non-vulnerable. Besides, if you decide to go to 4h or 4s regardless after the 2nt, why risk the remote possibility of your LHO passing the 2nt?

I guess there is no perfect way to solve this problem. What I see is a logic and style issue. Depending on whether you are aggresive or conservative (or the types of game you are playing, such as IMP vs MP), you may treat in one of the following ways:

1. If you are aggresive (intend to play 4h or 4s), bid 3nt. This 3nt cannot be to play, since you could have doubled 2nt for penalty if you intend to play 3nt. Therefore the only logic interpretation for this 3nt bid is to ask your pard to pick a major.

2. If you are conservative, pass, then double 3c. This double of 3c cannot be for penalty. Rather it should be to ask your pard to pick a major. You could then pass 3h/3s.

[Chamaco]

3H pass/correct.
Too many quackes and wasted stuff to hope for game when opps open NT.

Also, many players, at white bid DONT with 44 and/or bad cards, just to hinder opps NoTrump machine.

[Chamaco]

debussyl, on Apr 26 2005, 03:29 PM, said:

1. What do you do with a single-suited hearts?

With my pard we have agreed that when one pard shows a 2 suiter, we 'll play only in one of those suits, unless opps double and we may run to our single suiter.

Perhaps not optimal, but how often is it useful to bid in p/c vs how often bid the long suit ?
Especially being able to jumpbid (preemptively or not) in p/c is extremely useful.

Just forget your long suit, by showing his 2-suiter pard has already decided for you.

[mike777]

Chamaco, on Apr 26 2005, 11:44 AM, said:

debussyl, on Apr 26 2005, 03:29 PM, said:

1. What do you do with a single-suited hearts?

With my pard we have agreed that when one pard shows a 2 suiter, we 'll play only in one of those suits, unless opps double and we may run to our single suiter.

Perhaps not optimal, but how often is it useful to bid in p/c vs how often bid the long suit ?
Especially being able to jumpbid (preemptively or not) in p/c is extremely useful.

Just forget your long suit, by showing his 2-suiter pard has already decided for you.

Amen to these last 2 posts Chamaco. As JLall and many others have suggested why are we trying to make complicated so many basic auctions. I fault myself in this also.