awm, on 2017-September-20, 00:17, said:
We don't generally play invites opposite our invites; responder has shown 5+ ("invitational" opposite the usual 17-19 bal) so openers jump to 3h is forcing. We do occasionally bid light games when opener has 17 and 4-card support opposite 5-6 points. These games usually make.
Anyway the question of "how does opener force with a fit" does not really exist to us.
If anything I'd say the obsrvation that opener "usually has 3+ support" is an argument for 2D transfer rather than bidding 1nt (which seems to mostly help in case of a min/misfit).
So 1C (1S) dbl P 3H is forcing, but does it set hearts? I mean, does it promise 5 hearts for responder's 3? How do you go about locating your 4-4s? There is room to do it for sure but you have to have some agreements here.
Sometimes you play invites opposite invites. For example you play 1C-1N*, 3H is invitational, right? (*1N is GI or light GF hearts) It's important to be able to show fit, even with many minimums as partner can sometimes reevaluate. I can do that after 1C (1S) 1N and I can do it after 1C (1S) 2H (6-7 spade takeout) but you can't if 1C (1S) 2D is GI+ hearts and 1C (1S) dbl is takeout spades.
1C (1S) 2D as GI+ hearts is bad for the GF hands. If 1C (1S) 2S is GF hearts and opener rebids 2N, responder can show a second suit. This isn't possible after 1C (1S) 2D P 2N which is a marionette to 3C (so 3C by responder would be "as requested" and 3D by responder would be "artificial GF"?
awm, on 2017-September-20, 00:24, said:
We have not had detailed discussion of stopperless GF balanced hands, but my personal tendency is to show a strong four card minor as five (so here transfer to diamonds) rather than double. It is not disimilar to the standard auction 1D-(1S) and I hold xxxx KQ Jxx AKxx where 2C is a standout and I would not consider notrump or a negative double.
In this particular example, I think then you would bid 1C (1S) 2S and opener might agree clubs with 3C and you're possibly in a 4-3 fit? So responder bids 3S perhaps and opener bids 4C? So responder has extra values and suspects that the partnership has a 4-4 fit but may not be entirely sure.
You wrote a very good thread once on organizing openings and responses into the "expected hand type" and dbl as GF balanced lets opener know right away what sort of hand to expect. He can start bidding naturally (including often the 1N rebid) or you could include a little artificiality in it (2C as stayman or whatever)
awm, on 2017-September-20, 01:34, said:
Another observation we seem to have both missed:
If you have 5+ good spades in responder's seat, aren't you going to pass expected a balancing double? Sure, 1♠ might have been a psych, but then partner might raise, or opener might balance with an off-shape double anyway, etc. It seems weird to just show the spades after RHO showed spades.
The situation where you really want a "psych-revealing" bid is for opener, after an auction like 1♣-(1♠)-Pass-(Pass) where passing it out could pay off to the psych (esp. if they are NV).
Interesting and I think that's what most folks do (pass with spades). One argument for showing the GF spades right away is to separate that from the GI spades. Say it goes 1C (1S) P P dbl P P 2C is opener's pass now forcing? If we want a GF spade response I think 2N is the place to do it since it accomplishes getting the lead for NT at the same time. Interested in your thoughts. Do we both need to remove the GF spades?
Btw, I still appreciate any ideas you might have on 1C (1S) 1N continuations.
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