[diana_eva]

Matchpoints:

---

You decide to pass this beauty, but partner insists. Now what?

[steve2005]

P knows best 5♥

[gszes]

4NT

It could be right to pass but the presence of TWO 5 card suits coupled with spade shortness surely means a fair portion of p defensive HCP are wasted. It seems right to bid here even w/o the strong expectation of making at the 5 level. The 4NT bid shows 2 places to play and that seems better than just picking the better heart suit as it gives us two possibly great landing spots vs one.

[apollo1201]

4NT for me

Probably unexpensive vs their potentially making 4S, I am not sure given my lengths that we might cash several tricks in each side suit - I'd pass a more balanced hand.

And on a good day we make (or they bid 5S)!

Or on a bad day partner leaves me here🤣

[The_Badger]

This is more awkward than it actually looks, I feel. Whilst I agree 4NT shows 2 places to play here, it also could be interpreted as "I'm not interested in the ♥ suit, after both your doubles, pick one of the minors"

That's ok if partner bids 5♦ after 4NT because you now correct to 5♥, but if he bids 5♣ you're going to pass and you may miss out on a better ♥ fit if he is 1-5-3-4

If partner was minor suit-oriented (unlikely but possible) then bidding 4NT as opposed to doubling again would have been his bid, so I am more inclined to trust partner as Steve2005 says and bid 5♥ myself, although there is an additional problem with that as the big hand becomes dummy.

Leaving 4♠X in is not an option, this century or the next.

[mikeh]

4N is clear: it is standard for this to mean 'two places to play'.

For those opting for 5♥, let me ask you why you fear that he may be 1=5=3=4? That is just about the only shape on which hearts will play better than clubs and we can't reach hearts after 4N..

And while you are thinking about that, let me ask you how your partner was supposed to bid with a hand such as xx AKx KQxx AKxx? Anybody here think he misbid to double 1♠ and then 4♠?

While 5♥ isn't necessarily a disaster opposite that sort of shape, 5♣ rates to be a lot safer, and there are weaker hands for him than that 19 count, where the big fit will be very important.

This isn't about perfection: auctions like this are about survival, and we should aim to maximize finding a good fit rather than fantasizing about the perfect fit.

[ahydra]

4NT seems clear, pull 5D to 5H.

ahydra

[msjennifer]

It is match points and so 5H is what I suggest.At IMP I might oonsider 4NT.

[Kapi Blas]

4NT as any 2 suiter. If partner bids 5♣ you pass, if 5♦ you bid 5♥.

[The_Badger]

mikeh, on 2017-August-14, 17:23, said:

4N is clear: it is standard for this to mean 'two places to play'
This isn't about perfection: auctions like this are about survival, and we should aim to maximize finding a good fit rather than fantasizing about the perfect fit.

I concede you're right, Mike, +1, it's about survival. If you want to see partner's hand it's posted on another part of the forum:-

http://www.bridgebas...with-opps-suit/

Both hands just prove how tough a game bridge is.

[ramace]

Hi,

Better to pass as both are vuls.

If vuls vs nonvuls:

1.One can use 4nt as both minors 5-5.

1s-*-4s-4nt

5c-p-p-p.

or

1s-*-4s-4nt
5c-p-5d-p
5h-p-p-p.

2.With heart and minor 5-5:

1s-*-4s-5h.
(in both case opps bid not counted).

[diana_eva]

The_Badger, on 2017-August-15, 04:39, said:

I concede you're right, Mike, +1, it's about survival. If you want to see partner's hand it's posted on another part of the forum:-

http://www.bridgebas...with-opps-suit/

Both hands just prove how tough a game bridge is.

Now you spoiled it I'm gonna start counting the arguments for pass after your post

[maartenxq]

The_Badger, on 2017-August-14, 10:59, said:

If partner was minor suit-oriented (unlikely but possible) then bidding 4NT as opposed to doubling again would have been his bid, so I am more inclined to trust partner as Steve2005 says and bid 5♥ myself, although there is an additional problem with that as the big hand becomes dummy.

In my view ps 2cd dbl is penalty orientated. If he wants t/o he can bid 4 nt himself. So probably 5 ♥ is the best option as p will not be 1435.

[Caitlynne]

5H is clear cut. Anything else is an egregious error and abuse of partnership.

Partner has twice suggested spade shortness and support for the remaining three suits. That means that the opponents have at least 10 spades between them, if not 11 or more. We surely have at least a 9 card fit in either clubs or hearts - and probably both! So we can expect at least 20 total trumps and the Law of Total Tricks makes it mandatory to bid.

If that weren't enough to convince you, partner has twice asked you to bid your longest suit, hoping/expecting a good fit based on distribution. Thus, any takeout at this high level is only unclear when you are balanced (and without length outside of spades). Here, however, you are quite distributional, so to fail to cooperate with partner and takeout to a long suit is unthinkable.

5C is okay at IMPs, but 5H is clearly preferable to 5C at matchpoints. Your side may be cold for game and, if it is, the available major suit game contract will outscore the minor suit game.

[The_Badger]

diana_eva, on 2017-August-15, 05:48, said:

Now you spoiled it I'm gonna start counting the arguments for pass after your post

Lol. I even managed to contradict and trip myself up in my own comments on the two posts, that essentially show how very difficult it actually is countering a direct 4♠ pre-emptive raise.

And sincere apologies for spoiling it, but at least I should get credit for working out that the two separate posts were connected

[PhilG007]

diana_eva, on 2017-August-14, 05:50, said:

Matchpoints:

---

You decide to pass this beauty, but partner insists. Now what?

North is the type of player that I abhor. He's only concerned with his own hand,blithely ignoring the
fact he has a partner sitting opposite who,very likely,is holding a 'busted flush' People like North are as big a pest at
the bridge table as the greenfly are in the garden(!) I would pass just to "teach partner a lesson "

[mcphee]

While it is possible you can beat 4S to me there is little doubt I have offense and not defense. As its pairs perhaps H is a reasonable choice, however 4NT is what I have. I do not care if its pairs, I prefer to scramble into my best fit. If you got it wrong, too bad, its just one board.

[miamijd]

PhilG007, on 2017-August-16, 00:51, said:

North is the type of player that I abhor. He's only concerned with his own hand,blithely ignoring the
fact he has a partner sitting opposite who,very likely,is holding a 'busted flush' People like North are as big a pest at
the bridge table as the greenfly are in the garden(!) I would pass just to "teach partner a lesson "

Really? And suppose North has a hand like:

Ax
AKxx
Axxx
AKx

You make 6 hearts six days to Sunday. As it happened, North had a hand that's really tough:

AKTx
Kxx
AQx
Axx

I have no clue what to do with that hand over 4S (I think I would X); whatever I do would end up wrong!

Cheers,
Mike

[rmnka447]

4 NT, then pull 5 ♦ to 5 ♥ if necessary.

I appreciate those who are worried about 5 ♥ being a superior MP result. But at the 5 level, it's more about finding a decent place to play than necessarily the best place to play. By bidding 4 NT, you not only increase your options of doing that, but also give partner some useful information about the nature of your hand.