[andrei]

hrothgar, on 2018-June-21, 06:48, said:

I posted one with 85%. Round up, a$$hole

This one?

"
In recent months, the Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR), the agency within the U.S. Department of Justice that adjudicates immigration removal cases, released data showing that the vast majority of families do in fact show up for court dates. This data, however, has been misconstrued—some have even claimed that 85 percent of mothers are not appearing for their hearings.
"

LOL

Try better ...

[andrei]

hrothgar, on 2018-June-21, 11:15, said:

If *****-for-brains has actually bother to read my post, he would have seen that I cited two different links

The first was the link that Larry originally provide and misrepresented.
(This is te one where you state that the point current point estimate for the number of asylum seeker that don't show up is 46%, however, the long term average tends to fluctuate between 20 and 40%

I also provided the following link
https://www.humanrig...migration-court which states



The 90% number was a figure that I had heard on NPR earlier in the week.
I will try to run it down

Larry's link says 54%.
Yours says 60%.

There is some work to do to get to 90%.

[Winstonm]

Let me help as I know some posters' search engines will only take them to Breitbart and Alex Jones websites:

https://www.humanrig...es_Feb_2018.pdf

Quote

According to Syracuse University’s Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse (TRAC), as of December 2017, 97 percent of represented mothers whose cases initiated in fiscal year (FY) 2014 were in compliance with their immigration court hearing obligations three years later. Similarly, 98 percent of children in immigration proceedings whose cases initiated in 2014 and who had obtained counsel were in full compliance with their court appearance obligations as of December 2017.1

So it seems the issue is whether or not these people are represented by attorneys, which, surprise, the Dennison Gang capitalized on by defunding the program to provide legal defense, thus creating skewed statistics which, whether purposeful or not, made their position look more "reasonable".

[hrothgar]

ldrews, on 2018-June-21, 11:30, said:

And I reject your framing of the illegal immigrants being asylum seekers. Legitimate asylum seekers present themselves at a port of entry and request asylum. Illegal immigrants, those crossing the border at other than ports of entry, and then claiming to be asylum seekers are simply using a subterfuge. Crossing the border at other than ports of entry is a crime in the US. Therefore those who do so are criminals.

Nice try, *****head.

Regretfully, the US government was applying the same child separation policy both against asylum seekers and non asylum seekers

https://www.nytimes....separation.html

Quote

The American Civil Liberties Union has filed a lawsuit on behalf of a Congolese woman who says her daughter was taken from her when she applied for asylum at a port of entry.

As The Times and others have reported, asylum seekers are also being turned away when they do present themselves at ports of entry. Even when immigrants improperly cross the border, they can still legally seek asylum.

But the administration’s zero-tolerance policy subjects all who cross the border illegally, including asylum seekers, to prosecution.

[Winstonm]

Facts are such a nuisance!

[hrothgar]

andrei, on 2018-June-21, 11:41, said:

Larry's link says 54%.
Yours says 60%.

There is some work to do to get to 90%.

Lets try this again...

Drews claims that his link showed that 90% DON'T show up when in fact it claims that the over a long period of measurement the percentage that show up moves between 70% and 80%.
They also state that the most recent point measurement had dropped to 54%. While this is certainly a drift from the long term average, it is also still a point measurement.

As WInston noted, I also provided a second link showing numbers well above 90% (admittedly for migrants who were able to get proper legal representation)

[johnu]

hrothgar, on 2018-June-21, 13:12, said:

Nice try, *****head.

Regretfully, the US government was applying the same child separation policy both against asylum seekers and non asylum seekers

https://www.nytimes....separation.html

And the US border guards have essentially closed the border to potential asylum seekers by preventing them from stepping on US soil so that they can claim asylum. So even if they had legitimate claims for asylum, they have no way to make a claim for asylum.

https://www.theatlan...-border-asylum/

[Al_U_Card]

Do the court appearances referenced include all immigrants (legal, illegal and asylum-seekers) or do they differentiate?

[Winstonm]

I guess this must be more "fake news" as no one from the "party" would dare talk this way about "dear leader" Dennison:

Quote

Republican Rep. Mike Coffman, who faces a tough reelection this year in Colorado, on Thursday afternoon called on President Trump to fire senior policy adviser Stephen Miller.

“The President should put a General, a respected retired CEO or some other senior leadership figure on the job of making sure each and every child is returned to their parents,” Coffman tweeted. “And the President should fire Stephen Miller now. This is a human rights mess. It is on the President to clean it up and fire the people responsible for making it.”

Either that, or we've finally trapped a witch!

[hrothgar]

Al_U_Card, on 2018-June-21, 15:29, said:

Do the court appearances referenced include all immigrants (legal, illegal and asylum-seekers) or do they differentiate?

Why do you care? Just make up whatever position you want.
Its what you usually do.

[ldrews]

hrothgar, on 2018-June-21, 13:38, said:

Lets try this again...

Drews claims that his link showed that 90% DON'T show up when in fact it claims that the over a long period of measurement the percentage that show up moves between 70% and 80%.
They also state that the most recent point measurement had dropped to 54%. While this is certainly a drift from the long term average, it is also still a point measurement.

As WInston noted, I also provided a second link showing numbers well above 90% (admittedly for migrants who were able to get proper legal representation)

Excuse me, I did not claim that 90% don't show up, I claimed that Senator Jeff Flake reported that 90% don't show up. It would help if you get your facts straight.

[ldrews]

johnu, on 2018-June-21, 15:11, said:

And the US border guards have essentially closed the border to potential asylum seekers by preventing them from stepping on US soil so that they can claim asylum. So even if they had legitimate claims for asylum, they have no way to make a claim for asylum.

https://www.theatlan...-border-asylum/

They have no legitimate claims for asylum unless they present themselves to an official port of entry.

[hrothgar]

ldrews, on 2018-June-21, 17:07, said:

They have no legitimate claims for asylum unless they present themselves to an official port of entry.

Drews, you might believe that these individual have no legitimate claim to asylum, but they do have a legal claim.

https://www.nytimes....separation.html

Quote

Even when immigrants improperly cross the border, they can still legally seek asylum.

[hrothgar]

ldrews, on 2018-June-21, 17:06, said:

Excuse me, I did not claim that 90% don't show up, I claimed that Senator Jeff Flake reported that 90% don't show up. It would help if you get your facts straight.

So what was the point of posting incorrect information *****head?

[hrothgar]

First time illegal entry into the United States is a misdemeanor.

Lying on or omitting materially relevant information from your SF86 (as Jared Kushner did multiple times by his own admission) is a felony.

Guess which one's getting prosecuted?

[hrothgar]

And here is the really sick part.

Its now being reporting that Trump deliberately initiated these human right's abuses because he thought that another culture war issue would help him rile up his base.

Quote

Jonathan Lemire, the White House correspondent for the Associated Press, told MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” that Trump enacted the policy — which he later blamed on Democrats — to intentionally ignite another political firestorm.
“In our reporting, he was telling people around him that he thought this would be a good cultural war, kind of victory here, akin to the NFL players kneeling for the national anthem,” Lemire said.

https://www.rawstory...ke-nfl-bashing/

That's right! Our illustrious President instituted a policy of torturing because this is the sort of ***** his base gets off on.

And, while the tactics did work with weak minded idiots like Drews, luckily there's still enough decent people in the US that Trump needed to retract his position.

[ldrews]

hrothgar, on 2018-June-21, 18:13, said:

And here is the really sick part.

Its now being reporting that Trump deliberately initiated these human right's abuses because he thought that another culture war issue would help him rile up his base.



https://www.rawstory...ke-nfl-bashing/

That's right! Our illustrious President instituted a policy of torturing because this is the sort of ***** his base gets off on.

And, while the tactics did work with weak minded idiots like Drews, luckily there's still enough decent people in the US that Trump needed to retract his position.

So now, by Executive Order, illegal immigrant families are no longer being separated. Is this satisfactory to you?

[y66]

Guest post from Bruce Springsteen via The New Yorker:

Quote

One of the pleasures of Bruce Springsteen’s latest phase, as a one-man Broadway solo act, is his self-deprecation, the sheepish allowance that he is, for all his sincerity, at least partly a performance—a projection of the people he loved and knew growing up. He tells their story even while rock stardom and a taste for “the pink Cadillac” have led him to an entirely different material life. Cribbing from his memoir, “Born to Run,” he admits that he has written in the voice of a Jersey working man, yet he’s never really held a job. He sang lonely epics about the Turnpike and the Parkway before he ever bothered to get a driver’s license. The working man’s clothes that he wears onstage are his father’s. His gig on Broadway, he says, is the first real “job” he’s ever had. It’s half joke, half honest admission.

Springsteen has done his Broadway show, a tightly scripted narrative in words and song, a hundred and forty-six times, but, on Tuesday night, shaken by the scenes and sounds and images coming from the U.S.-Mexico border in Texas, he briefly abandoned his script. He spoke in the voice of an American outraged, disgusted, bewildered by what is happening in his own country. Standing on a bare stage and under a simple spotlight, he said,

Quote

I never believed that people come to my shows, or rock shows, to be told anything. But I do believe that they come to be reminded of things. To be reminded of who they are, at their most joyous, at their deepest, when life feels full. It’s a good place to get in touch with your heart and your spirit. To be amongst the crowd. And to be reminded of who we are and who we can be collectively. Music does those things pretty well sometimes, particularly these days, when some reminding of who we are and who we can be isn’t such a bad thing.

That weekend of the March for Our Lives, we saw those young people in Washington, and citizens all around the world, remind us of what faith in America and real faith in American democracy looks and feels like. It was just encouraging to see all those people out on the street and all that righteous passion in the service of something good. And to see that passion was alive and well and still there at the center of the beating heart of our country.

It was a good day, and a necessary day, because we are seeing things right now on our American borders that are so shockingly and disgracefully inhumane and un-American that it is simply enraging. And we have heard people in high position in the American government blaspheme in the name of God and country that it is a moral thing to assault the children amongst us. May God save our souls.

There’s the beautiful quote by Dr. King that says the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice. Now, there have been many, many recent days when you could certainly have an argument over that. But I’ve lived long enough to see that in action and to put some faith in it. But I’ve also lived long enough to know that arc doesn’t bend on its own. It needs all of us leaning on it, nudging it in the right direction, day after day. You’ve gotta keep, keep leaning. I think it’s important to believe in those words, and to carry yourself, and to act accordingly.

And, with that, Springsteen sang “The Ghost of Tom Joad.” Here he is performing it at home.

[cherdano]

Say what you want about President Stephen Miller's decision to institute government-organised child abuse - it did succeed in ticking off liberals! These snowflakes, can't even listen to some 5-year olds crying to see their parents without getting all sentimental.

[hrothgar]

ldrews, on 2018-June-22, 07:08, said:

So now, by Executive Order, illegal immigrant families are no longer being separated. Is this satisfactory to you?

Hardly.

In the short term:

1. First and foremost, the US must take action to reunite the families that have already been separated

2. The US government must clarify how the new polices that it is implementing can be made consistent with Flores, or, alternatively pass legislation to overturn Flores

3. I think the restitutions are appropriate

Long term (and this will need to wait for the next Democratic administration) ICE needs to be abolished.

Personally, I'd like to see Sessions and Miller handed over to the Hague, but I know that this is wishful thinking