[JLilly]

Hi all,

How does moving the 1NT opening range down a point or two from the standard 15-17 in a 2/1 or Standard American context affect the rest of the bidding structure? Clearly responses to 1NT need to be pumped correspondingly in most cases, but I'm thinking more in terms of suit openings and responses. If 1NT is 13-15, then that consumes a big share of what would have been 1♣ or 1♦ openings. And it seems like it should significantly change the inverted-minors structure, since 1m openings are now weak(ish), strong, or long.

Probably assume that opps are playing SAYC(ish) or 2/1.

Thanks,
JL

[spotlight7]

Kaplan Sheinwold played 5 card majors and a 12-14 NT

It is still played by a number of players.


1m-1N is @5-8HCP since opener will pass with balanced 15-17


1m-anything-1N is 15-17


1m-1M-2M raise is @15-17 either in HCP or a shapely hand.

[spotlight7]

A number of players use 14-17 or 14+-17

Some are using 14-16(which I use playing Precision)


They open with 11-13 and rebid 1N if the hand suggests that.


They invite a hit stronger than SAYC or2/1 since opener often holds 11-13

[awm]

I've seen 14-16 in a few different contexts:

1. 1X...1NT as 11-13. Then you open pretty much all 11s and a game force requires 13. This is a strategy for opening a bit lighter.
2. 1X...1NT as 12-13. This gets rid of a lot of invites (avoiding 1X-1Y-1NT-2NT for example) and lets you play semi-forcing 1NT in response to 1M without having to rebid 3-card minors.
3. With transfer responses to 1♣, where the 1♣...1NT shows 17-19 and 1♣... accept transfer shows 11-13. This can help results on the "big 1NT" type hand quite a bit.

I don't think 13-15 works really well, because you have to do something with the 16 point hands (where jumping to 2NT is quite uncomfortable). Maybe you could use it with transfer responses if you really want, but it seems better to just stick to 14-16 or go all the way to 12-14 (or 11-13).

[nige1]

Many experts partnerships seem to play 14-16 but declare 15-17
A possible problem of the 14-16 range is the occasional need to rebid 2N with 17-19, which is an uncomfortably wide range.
Charles Outred mitigates this problem with his variation of short club with transfer responses:

• 1C = BAL 17-19 or shapely with ♣s. You can often rebid 1N when balanced, allowing room for invitational sequences.
• 1D = BAL 11-13 or shapely with ♦s.
• 1N = BAL 14-16.

[nullve]

awm, on 2017-June-14, 23:03, said:

lets you play semi-forcing 1NT in response to 1M without having to rebid 3-card minors.

Allowing Opener to pass 1M-1N with 11-13, 5M(332) can be seen as a continuation of the "pass or bash" philosophy many use when responding to a 1N opening. Think of it as "1N or bash".

[awm]

nullve, on 2017-June-15, 02:26, said:

Allowing Opener to pass 1M-1N with 11-13, 5M(332) can be seen as a continuation of the "pass or bash" philosophy many use when responding to a 1N opening. Think of it as "1N or bash".

Despite claims people have made, I don't actually think this approach works all that well. The problem is that if you routinely open 11s, you really need 13 to game force. So you are responding 1NT with most (all?) 12-counts and you don't want to pass it with 13 any more. If the goal is to avoid invites and pass 1NT with all min-range balanced hands, you kind of need a two-point range (so 1M when balanced is just 12-13, not 11-13).

[spotlight7]

Romex uses a 1NT rebid with 13-16.

They jump to 2N with 17-18.


Crowhurst style bidding uses a 1N rebid with 12-16.

I am not a fan of wide range NT bids or rebids.


Playing a Precision Style system, I use 14-16 for 1N.

1C*-1D*-1N shows 17-18 balanced.


I use a Kokish style 1C*-1D*-1H* that shows either

Hs(if a suit is next bid) or 19-20 if 1NT is rebid.



The players opening 11-13 range often use a semi forcing


1M-1NT* where opener bids with 14+ or if they have a shapely hand.


Meckwell uses 1D-1N as 7+-11 since they open 10s(and some 9s!)

[fromageGB]

awm, on 2017-June-14, 23:03, said:

... This gets rid of a lot of invites (avoiding 1X-1Y-1NT-2NT for example) and lets you play semi-forcing 1NT in response to 1M without having to rebid 3-card minors.
3. With transfer responses to 1♣, where the 1♣...1NT shows 17-19 and 1♣... accept transfer shows 11-13. This can help results on the "big 1NT" type hand quite a bit.

I don't think 13-15 works really well, because you have to do something with the 16 point hands (where jumping to 2NT is quite uncomfortable). Maybe you could use it with transfer responses if you really want, but it seems better to just stick to 14-16 or go all the way to 12-14 (or 11-13).

It works very well with 1NT=15/16, and there are no invitations at all. Transfer responses to 1♣ perfectly handle the ranges 12-14, 17/18, and 19/20 where the rebid is never higher than 2NT, and it is just a 2-point range. An added bonus is your 2NT open is now 21/22 and 2♣..2NT = 23/24.

[mycroft]

3 things:

1. If you only cut a point or so, you still have a "lower than 1NT" range that bids 1m-1x-1NT. So your bidding doesn't change much, except for range changes.
2. If you go down far enough (K/S 12-14, 1970s precision 12+-15) you don't have a "lower than 1NT" in your system, and that changes things *a lot*. First, you need a meaning for 1m then 1NT rebid (K/S plays "sound minors", and are 15+ or long; original precision effectively played 1D "unbalanced" or at least two-suited; so 1NT was probably singleton in partner's suit). Then, you have to ensure in competition (and you get more competition over 1m) that you are taking the difference in 1m openings to mind and bidding accordingly (for instance, I find people new to K/S will overbid their strong NTs in competitive auctions, forgetting that that's the hand partner is playing them for).
2a. Note that if you go down on your 1NT opener enough (10-12, in non-ACBL maybe even 9-11), it swings back. Your "1m then 1NT" is now back to "standard" and you need to figure out what to do with the 15-17s.
3. In the play is where you have to "think different". Especially at MPs, especially if you're a real outlier, there will be many hands where, when dummy comes down, you have to work out what the auction would be in the field, and whether you're ahead or behind already.

One small note -if you play 14-16, have a firm agreement about what an invite asks. "I would have blasted opposite 15-17" is a reasonable one, designed to be with the field's 1NT-3NT auctions, at some cost, but there are others.