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Pick an opening lead?

Poll: What do you lead against 4H? (51 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you lead?

  1. low spade (36 votes [70.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 70.59%

  2. trump (8 votes [15.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.69%

  3. diamond 7 (1 votes [1.96%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.96%

  4. ace of clubs (5 votes [9.80%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.80%

  5. low club (1 votes [1.96%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.96%

  6. other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   Kaitlyn S 

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Posted 2017-June-03, 22:24



Matchpoints. Your lead?
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#2 User is online   awm 

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Posted 2017-June-03, 23:25

A small club is cute and could well be the winner. I'd try it if going for a swing here, but the low spade lead seems normal.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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#3 User is offline   The_Badger 

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Posted 2017-June-04, 00:37

A low for me too. Without sounding patronising, and as this is posted in the General Bridge Discussion forum, this is an outline for newer and less-experienced players why a low is generally best.

You know that trumps s are breaking favourably but partner may have Qx, and declarer may have a two-way finesse available to him. The last thing you want to do is make it easy for him to pick up your partner's Q by leading a trump.

Your holding is under dummy's. It could confuse declarer by leading a small but it could also present him with a vital tempo to establish dummy's for discards of losers.

It is generally bad practice to lead or lead away from an unsupported ace against a suit contract [awm's comment noted], so leading the ace immediately relinquishes your control of that suit.

As for a small . The consensus about this lead is that you are trying to set up a winner in the suit, while you still have a control in your hand A. The odds are that you will find partner with either the A, K or J and that it will be a safe lead.

At matchpoints it is usually best to do what everyone else is doing in the room. Only when you are desperate for a top do you go against the flow of what is the norm. If 4 is making whatever the lead, and some declarers, let's say by guessing the finesse can make +450 instead of +420, the last thing you want to do by making an unconventional lead is to present a declarer with +480 (two overtricks) and an absolute top.
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#4 User is offline   Kaitlyn S 

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Posted 2017-June-04, 14:02

Hi - I put this here because I read it in a bridge book that is being considered for an award. The author led the ace of clubs, stating that the diamond holding under dummy's expected long strong suit warranted an attacking lead. In his example hand, dummy had a singleton spade and partner had the KQJ.

I couldn't see this as being good advice but I thought I might be out of touch with modern reality, so I posted the hand to see what others thought.

At the time I posted this, there were 10 votes for my favored low spade lead and none for anything else. I find TheBadger's analysis excellent.
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#5 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-June-04, 21:01

 Kaitlyn S, on 2017-June-04, 14:02, said:

Hi - I put this here because I read it in a bridge book that is being considered for an award. The author led the ace of clubs, stating that the diamond holding under dummy's expected long strong suit warranted an attacking lead. In his example hand, dummy had a singleton spade and partner had the KQJ.

I couldn't see this as being good advice but I thought I might be out of touch with modern reality, so I posted the hand to see what others thought.

At the time I posted this, there were 10 votes for my favored low spade lead and none for anything else. I find TheBadger's analysis excellent.


I considered the club Ace for the reasons mentioned but rejected it because A), there is no way to know if the diamond suit is 5+ cards and B) there is no way to know that the cashing tricks are in spades, not clubs.

I get the aggressive lead part, and if the auction would have been 1H-1S-2S-4S, and the Kxx of hearts, then the club Ace makes more sense.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#6 User is offline   The_Badger 

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Posted 2017-June-04, 22:00

[quote name='Kaitlyn S' timestamp='1496606553' post='924141'

At the time I posted this, there were 10 votes for my favored low spade lead and none for anything else. I find TheBadger's analysis excellent.
[/quote]

Thank you Kaitlyn. I have looked at the hand again. I still believe a small is the right lead. To find partner with KQJ and cashable tricks is more luck than judgement, I feel.
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#7 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2017-June-05, 07:35

 Kaitlyn S, on 2017-June-03, 22:24, said:



Matchpoints. Your lead?

I dislike leading away from unsupported honors when defending suit contracts so it has to be a trump lead. If partner does
have a trump honor its dead in the water anyway plus the trump lead will cut down dummy's ruffing
power.
"It is not enough to be a good player, you must also play well"
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Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)


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#8 User is offline   WellSpyder 

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Posted 2017-June-05, 10:00

 Kaitlyn S, on 2017-June-04, 14:02, said:

Hi - I put this here because I read it in a bridge book that is being considered for an award. The author led the ace of clubs, stating that the diamond holding under dummy's expected long strong suit warranted an attacking lead. In his example hand, dummy had a singleton spade and partner had the KQJ.

I wish I had seen this before the weekend since the author obviously knows things the rest of us don't! I was on lead yesterday against 4 with a similar choice between an unsupported A or QJxx in different side suits. I thought my choice of the Q might have worked out well when dummy went down with Kx. But no, declarer had the A, while partner had KQJ in the suit in which I had the unsupported A, and declarer was able to discard a loser in this suit.

Perhaps I should be relieved that no-one else seemed to have read the book either, since the board was close to average in a largish field (100 pairs) in a national final. Or perhaps the A really is the wrong lead unless you have seen the full hand.....
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#9 User is offline   RD350LC 

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Posted 2017-June-05, 10:50

 Kaitlyn S, on 2017-June-03, 22:24, said:



Matchpoints. Your lead?

At matchpoints, there is no question that a small spade is the suggested lead. It may not set the contract, but is most unlikely to give any anything.
At IMPs, I might lead the Ace clubs, but I doubt it. To say that the Ace clubs is the recommended lead because partner happens to have the KQJ clubs is result playing, and is in my opinion, not good bridge.
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#10 User is offline   miamijd 

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Posted 2017-June-05, 15:58

If you posted this on bridgewinners, I suspect you'd get 75%+ for a low spade:

* The opponents didn't investigate slam and you have 9HCP, so partner has a card or two. If your side doesn't have a red trick, then he is likely to have a spade card.

* LHO hasn't necessarily shown long, strong diamonds. Your KTx isn't that bad (a lot better than Qxx). Only if dummy shows up with AQJxx is your holding awful.

* Opening leads are tough and often a guess. Whereas expert players will rarely make defensive errors later in the play, they will often select what turns out to be the wrong opening lead. At MPs, why swing boards on the opening lead if you think you and partner are a lot better than average? Unless you have some distinct reason for making an anti-field lead, just lead what everyone else will lead and score points by defending the hand better later on, when the decisions involve far less guesswork.

Cheers,
Mike
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#11 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2017-June-06, 03:35

 Winstonm, on 2017-June-04, 21:01, said:

I considered the club Ace for the reasons mentioned but rejected it because A), there is no way to know if the diamond suit is 5+ cards

When the opponents are playing a strong 1NT opening (as most opponents do) then opener has pretty promised an unbalanced hand when he jumped to 3. Of course, it is possible that he has a 4441 distribution, but I consider it safe to assume that opener has 5(+) diamonds.

Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
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#12 User is offline   Nabooba 

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Posted 2017-June-06, 06:58

LHO has 5Ds and 4H for the reasons posted above. I think the Ace is likely the best lead. Your DK looks lost.
Where are you parrot?
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#13 User is offline   Kaitlyn S 

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Posted 2017-June-06, 09:45

 Nabooba, on 2017-June-06, 06:58, said:

LHO has 5Ds and 4H for the reasons posted above. I think the Ace is likely the best lead. Your DK looks lost.
Playing 15-17 NT, opener could have an 18-count 2-4-4-3 or 3-4-4-2 where the doubleton contains a minor honor (such that you wouldn't count it enough to jump to 4H.) However, I think a 5-card diamond suit is to be expected.
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#14 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2017-June-06, 12:13

A small spade.No problem ,at least,for me.
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#15 User is offline   akwoo 

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Posted 2017-June-06, 20:02

If you lead a spade, do you trust partner to insert the 9 from A9x(x) or K9(xx) seeing the J on the board?

I voted trump. I'll concede I'm wrong, but I don't think the difference is that big, and the situation I outlined might be enough to make a difference.
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#16 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2017-June-07, 02:43

 The_Badger, on 2017-June-04, 00:37, said:

At matchpoints it is usually best to do what everyone else is doing in the room.

While I can agree with the rest, this is nonsense.
And it does not get better because this nonsense gets repeated time and again
Play, bid and lead what the average player does and you end with an average result.

This does not mean I go out of my way doing things differently. I also lead a low spade here.
However, the argument is not because I try to mimic what others will do.
I simply expect this lead to be more often effective than other leads, particularly at matchpoints.

Rainer Herrmann
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#17 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2017-June-07, 02:54

 akwoo, on 2017-June-06, 20:02, said:

If you lead a spade, do you trust partner to insert the 9 from A9x(x) or K9(xx) seeing the J on the board?

http://www.rpbridge.net/4k00.htm

Look at example 10 to 13 (Finesse Against Dummy) and you or your partner may learn something

Rainer Herrmann
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#18 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2017-June-07, 09:04

 rhm, on 2017-June-07, 02:43, said:

While I can agree with the rest, this is nonsense.
And it does not get better because this nonsense gets repeated time and again
Play, bid and lead what the average player does and you end with an average result.

This does not mean I go out of my way doing things differently. I also lead a low spade here.
However, the argument is not because I try to mimic what others will do.
I simply expect this lead to be more often effective than other leads, particularly at matchpoints.

Rainer Herrmann


We agree.
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#19 User is offline   Kaitlyn S 

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Posted 2017-June-07, 14:46

 akwoo, on 2017-June-06, 20:02, said:

If you lead a spade, do you trust partner to insert the 9 from A9x(x) or K9(xx) seeing the J on the board?

If S-Jx or S-Jxx is on the board, why wouldn't you play the SA if you have it?

 rhm, on 2017-June-07, 02:54, said:

http://www.rpbridge.net/4k00.htm

Look at example 10 to 13 (Finesse Against Dummy) and you or your partner may learn something

Rainer Herrmann

RP's example where you don't play the ace has the queen on the table. With the jack on the table, I think the play of the ace is indicated. After all, the diamonds are still dangerous (and if third hand is looking at D-AQJxx on the board and three small in his hand, he might hop SA even if the SQ is in dummy at matchpoints.)


 akwoo, on 2017-June-06, 20:02, said:

I voted trump. I'll concede I'm wrong, but I don't think the difference is that big, and the situation I outlined might be enough to make a difference.
I agree with the author that you want to make an attacking lead, for the auction indicates that declarer is likely to draw trump and play diamonds, and you'd better have your black suits ready to roll if and when your side gets in. I think a trump is definitely wrong based on the auction and your hand (although I suppose it's possible to create a hand where a trump lead is best.) My question was really whether the CA would be better than a spade - although I included other leads because people might want to lead something else.
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#20 User is offline   cartruck 

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Posted 2017-June-08, 16:00

I picked a low club. That would be the perfect way for me to initially befuddle the declarer's short term view of how to play the hand (he thinks I am leading from an honor not the unprotected Ace), and I would still retain 2nd round control of clubs if I need it as partner is almost assuredly going to have 1 or 2 honors in clubs. Not to mention that there is a fair probability that LHO does indeed have the K of Clubs with that mighty hand.
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