[alok c]

nekthen, on 2017-April-07, 11:34, said:

Just out of interest. It seems to me that 6N makes very nearly as often as 6C. So shouldn't we be in 6N?

No.If North is 4c ♣J,against a ♥ lead,6NT has no chance( theoretically for other lead it may succeed if ♦Q drops in 2 rounds) but 6♣ makes if ♦Q is onside.

[miamijd]

johnu, on 2017-April-07, 14:47, said:

Is Standard American Expert a real system or just your description? In Bridge World Standard 2017, 2♣ and then a 2NT rebid is 22-24, and getting to 2NT by going through 2♥ is 25+. BWS is based on common expert practice. Even if you had other sequences for higher point count ranges, 26 HCP would still be a 2NT rebid.

If you play Kokish, then 2C followed by 2NT isn't 22-24 any more. It's 22-23. Kokish, then 2NT is 24-25. 2C then 3NT is 26-27; Kokish then 3NT is 28+. BWS doeesn't incorporate Kokish, but I would venture that most top serious players play it.

Cheers,
mike

[Vampyr]

We would start:

2 ♣-2♦
2NT-3♠
3NT-4♥

=slam try with clubs.

[johnu]

miamijd, on 2017-April-07, 19:44, said:

If you play Kokish, then 2C followed by 2NT isn't 22-24 any more. It's 22-23. Kokish, then 2NT is 24-25. 2C then 3NT is 26-27; Kokish then 3NT is 28+. BWS doeesn't incorporate Kokish, but I would venture that most top serious players play it.

Cheers,
mike

BWS doesn't call the 2♥ marionette bid Kokish. The call it Birthright (I don't remember the story why they changed the name, but Kokish has long been associated with the TBW) in the BWS 2017 summary. Read for yourself,

http://www.bridgewor...system.html#IVD

The 2001 system had the same point ranges as I previously mentioned but the 2♥ bid was called Kokish.

[Vampyr]

miamijd, on 2017-April-07, 19:44, said:

If you play Kokish, then 2C followed by 2NT isn't 22-24 any more. It's 22-23. Kokish, then 2NT is 24-25. 2C then 3NT is 26-27; Kokish then 3NT is 28+. BWS doeesn't incorporate Kokish, but I would venture that most top serious players play it.

Cheers,
mikes

Better to open 2♣ with 20-21(22). Then you can get out in two of a major or three of a minor opposite this range (major-suit negatives and bids other than 2♠ over 2♥ provide this opportunity).

[RedSpawn]

GrahamJson, on 2017-April-07, 10:45, said:

Presumably after the sequence 2C - 2D -3NT Stayman and transfers would apply, in which case 4S ought to indicate a minor suited hand with slam interest. With a highly suitable hand east can then bid 5NT; pick a slam. West can then complete the good work with a bid of 6C.

It seems to me that this is a sequence that a good pair could produce without prior agreements, although I can imagine a certain amount of head scratching, particularly following the 4S bid.

---

I completely co-sign GrahamJson's analysis here. The 2♣ open followed by a 3NT bid accurately describes East's hand. However, it is mandatory that West unapologetically upgrades his hand and pursues a slam.

West has 3 undervalued aces and 10s and no overvalued queens and jacks (which is worth an extra point) and also has 2 length points for a 6 card ♣ suit. That means his hand is now worth 4 + 1 + 2 = 7 adjusted points. East has announced a 26 points balanced hand with the 2♣ + 3NT bidding sequence so the total assets should rate at 26 + 7 = 33 points = Slam try. West must tow the line and bid past 3NT with a transfer to clubs via 4♠.

Hand evaluation with requisite upgrades/downgrades is critical to this delicate slam bidding process.

[masse24]

johnu, on 2017-April-07, 21:49, said:

BWS doesn't call the 2♥ marionette bid Kokish. The call it Birthright (I don't remember the story why they changed the name, but Kokish has long been associated with the TBW) in the BWS 2017 summary. Read for yourself,

http://www.bridgewor...system.html#IVD

The 2001 system had the same point ranges as I previously mentioned but the 2♥ bid was called Kokish.

They actually did not "change the name." They reverted back to the original name, Birthright, which is what Kokish first named it.

[xtraportly]

I am amazed that no one ever discusses a convention introduced to me by Gary Arthurs, many years ago, that i find extremely useful: He called it JohnBlackwood. Whenever 3NT (that was not stumbled into) is pulled to 4 of a minor it is a slam try in that minor. Partner can accept the invitation with kickback or can decline by bidding 4NT to play. On this hand we play the Kokish relay so the auction might have gone: 2C-2D//2H-2S//2N-3C//3N-4C(JBW)//4D(KB)-4S(4KCs)//6C.