[DenisO]

Are there are any differences between the Unassuming cue bid and the Invitational cue bid? Descriptions look pretty similar.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

there is one difference beween the following situations

Situation A

1H - (1S) - 2S (1) - ...

(1) inv. raise or better in heart

and

Situation B

(1S) - 2H - (Pass) - 2S (1)

(1) inv. raise or better in heart if minimum
or game force with own suit

The difference is, that in Situation A, the Cue Bid promises support
for openers suit opposite to Situation B, where the cue bid does not
promise support with 100% certainty, only if the bid was made with
a minimum.

The reason: In Situation A you have neg. doubles available, which allows
you differantiate between hands, which have a long suit but dont want
to force to game and hand, who want to force to game, in situation B
you dont have the Negative Double to help you in this case.

With kind reargds
Marlowe

[DenisO]

Thx Marlowe - but I don't understand Situation A. Both the UCB and the ICB are supposed to be responses to partner's overcall, by bidding the opponents' suit. Situation A is different ie a cue bid of overcaller's suit to show support for partner who is opener. Is this a different convention or some extension of either the UCB or ICB?

Denis

[P_Marlowe]

DenisO, on Apr 19 2005, 06:29 AM, said:

Thx Marlowe - but I don't understand Situation A.  Both the UCB and the ICB are supposed to be responses to partner's overcall, by bidding the opponents' suit. Situation A is different ie a cue bid of overcaller's suit to show support for partner who is opener. Is this a different convention or some extension of either the UCB or ICB?

Denis

Hi Denis,

In Situation A our side did open the bidding, i.e. 1H was an
opening bid, made by our side.
in Situation B our side did overcall a opening bid made by
the opps, 2H was an overcall made by our side.

As far as I know, the name UCB is only assigned to the Cue bid in
situation B.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[joker_gib]

What do you call UCB and ICB ? Can you give an example ?

Alain

[inquiry]

Traditionally, an unassuming cue-bid (at least, traditionally for me), occurs after we open and they overcall. It gets its name from the fact that it is not game forcing (of course can include game forcing values as a bonus, you just don't pass short of game yourself as the cue-bidder).

The typical auction might be...

1H - (2C) - ?

What is the meaning of various bids? How about this

• 2H ok, you know what this is
  
• 2D/2S = forcing new suit (or if you play Neg free bids, what ever you require)
  
• Dbl = neg, not support
  
• 3D/4D = fit jump
  
• 4C = splinter
  
• 3H weak raise with four card support
  
• 2NT = four card raise constructive or better, high Offense to Defense Ratio,
  
• 3C = mixed raise, three card support (or four card with low ODR),

A 3♣ bid on this auction would look something like...

Three card support, reasonable defese if they bid on, not a great offensive hand, too good for 2H, not good enough (offensively for 2NT).

---

[DenisO]

Hi Ben

That's not the way it's played over here in UK - nor according to The Bridge World which defines the UCB as :

"Unassuming cue-bid

advancer's cue-bid to show a strong raise of overcaller's suit, but not necessarily the values to force to game."

ie 1♥ - (1♠) -Pass -?

if ?= 2♥, that is an unassuming cue bid ie by overcallers partner.

The reason I asked the question is that Root and Pavlicek in "Modern Nridge Conventions" define exactly the same sort of sequence for the Invitational Cue Bid (I shortened that to ICB in my previous post). They define the ICB as a cue-bid of the enemy suit in response to partner's overcall. Unfortunately their excellent book doesn't include the unassuming cue bid []

Denis

[DenisO]

P_Marlowe, on Apr 19 2005, 11:32 AM, said:

As far as I know, the name UCB is only assigned to the Cue bid in
situation B.

With kind regards
Marlowe

Hi Marlowe

Please see my reply to Inquiry - re Root and Pavlicek; They define the invitational cue bid to be the same sequence as the unassuming cue bid. ie your situation B

Regards

Denis

[joker_gib]

DenisO, on Apr 19 2005, 08:15 AM, said:

The reason I asked the question is that Root and Pavlicek in "Modern Nridge Conventions" define exactly the same sort of sequence for the Invitational Cue Bid (I shortened that to ICB in my previous post). They define the ICB as a cue-bid of the enemy suit in response to partner's overcall. Unfortunately their excellent book doesn't include the unassuming cue bid []

So, I suppose that UCB and ICB are 2 different words to mean the same, aren't they ?

Alain

[DenisO]

joker_gib, on Apr 19 2005, 01:22 PM, said:

So, I suppose that UCB and ICB are 2 different words to mean the same, aren't they ? 

Alain

Maybe - and I was also thinking that might be the case - but I was really hoping for a response from someone who actually knows

[inquiry]

DenisO, on Apr 19 2005, 09:40 AM, said:

joker_gib, on Apr 19 2005, 01:22 PM, said:

So, I suppose that UCB and ICB are 2 different words to mean the same, aren't they ? 

Alain

Maybe - and I was also thinking that might be the case - but I was really hoping for a response from someone who actually knows

I play the cue-bid after an overcall differently. Here I play the cue-bid as a good hand and no clear direction... thus,

(1H)-1S-(pass)-2H

would be a hand too good to something else clever, but not game force. This cue-bid does not promise support (as I still ahve 2NT for the raise). The same after...

(1H)-Dbl-(pass)-2H

One can apply the term "unassuming" to these cue-bids (and the mixed raised I used earlier), because they are NOT GAME FORCE as traditional cue-bids would be (thus unassuming).

So, I use the "unassuming" nickname to imply non-game force.... but once again, responder can make them game force. On the auction where we open and they overcall, the cue-bid is WELL defined.. as a mixed raised unsuited for 2NT with low ODR. On auctions where we overcall, the cue-bid is much wider in scope and can be a monster, or can be scattered value trying to convey the uncertainty that the hand contains about playing spot.

The use of the cue bid as an invitiational raise of partner (or better), allows the direct raises to be preempts. Hence, I think, the use of Invitational cue-bid for when the raise is just that. Since I use 2NT for this purpose, the cue-bid is better (or at least differently defined) how I play.

Ben