[shyams]

Matchpoints - Both Vul
Competent partner -- though more skilled at card-play than bidding. Your side is playing 2/1 with the usual gadgets.

---

Partner's jump to slam was unexpected. Question is: Is thinking of a grand slam out of question? So, do you plan to bid on?

[MrAce]

shyams, on 2017-June-25, 08:00, said:

Matchpoints - Both Vul
Competent partner -- though more skilled at card-play than bidding. Your side is playing 2/1 with the usual gadgets.


Partner's jump to slam was unexpected. Question is: Is thinking of a grand slam out of question? So, do you plan to bid on?

1-Thinking of grand slam is of course not out of question.

2-I probably would try to figure out the hand patterns and reasons why partner would make this bid.

• He did not find a better way to show club fit and a great hand. He thought 4♣ would look like a simple preference and 5♣ could end the auction.
• If he wanted to cue, he had to repeat his own spade suit which could be misunderstood, and even if not, it would be a cue for the second suit of us, diamonds.
• Seems like his hand is upgraded after his LHO showed 6+ spades and our 3 ♦ bid. Such as Txxxx Kx Kx AJTx or Txxxxx Kx x AJxx

3- Can he have a hand without the ♣A, such as Axxxx Kx K JTxxx or a hand with ♣A but no diamond help such as ATxxx Kx xx AJTx or some other hand type that i can not think of at the moment? I do not know.

To answer your question, most people will come up with the BS that says "do not do anything risky at MP" as if they have better card play than the majority, which is not even remotely the reality most of the time if you ask me. They always advice as if you get close to an average score in these boards you will be fine. No you won't be fine unless you are clearly superior at card play and defense with your pd than the majority of the field. Unless of course playing 50% games is what you call to be OK.

So if I am playing in a field that I feel superior, I probably would not risk grand slam, despite the fact that the hands I make grand slam will be much more than the hands that I do not if pd is a sane person. But if I am playing Blue Ribbon final sessions or something similar to it, I am definitely bidding the grand slam. Because I can not afford to play for average score when I have very good odds for a good score. Huge majority of my opponents will have at least as good playing skills as I do, if not much better.

[eagles123]

this is the sort of thing GIB will do, leap to slam when it has a ton of forcing bids it could make at a much lower level, leaving you with a wild guess as to whether a grand can make.

of course it's easy enough to come up with a hand that grand is just cold but it's just as easy to come up with hands where you don't want to be there. So I pass and if we have 18 tricks off the top I have a conversation with partner about taking things a bit slower!!

[steve2005]

East's 2♠ shows 6♠. If east is to be believed 6♠ is in jeopardy and 7♠ will have no play. 7 minor/7N might be better.
edit: ugh thought partner bid 6♠

[MrAce]

eagles123, on 2017-June-25, 09:22, said:

but it's just as easy to come up with hands where you don't want to be there.

If it is so easy just give us some examples, because I tried and could not come up with many of them that makes sense with this auction.

[rmnka447]

+ 1 for MrAce.

Consideration of the field you're playing against is paramount. In an average field encompassing all levels of players, there's a truism that people have trouble bidding slams. So if you get to a slam, especially one that others might find difficult to bid, then it's at least an average plus result and usually a lot better than that.

[Cyberyeti]

I presume 1♣-2♠ would have been weak (this changes some of the hands partner could hold)

My suspicion is that partner is void in diamonds and now has no sensible way to bid his hand, pretty much anything else he can take slower.

I also can't imagine he doesn't have ♣A, he's got to worry you have clubs headed by the Q and a big diamond suit if he has J10xx(x).

I think bidding 7 is very much in the frame.

[ggwhiz]

When my partner bids like this they have a void which would be diamonds here or the clock is running down at the end of a speedball round.

Given your description of this partner the grand is certainly worth thinking about and even if on a red suit hook rates to have a good chance but with my regular partner I have too many diamonds to take care of. It might make anyway but with spade shortness of some degree behind me screwing with my possible crossruff I'm not bidding it.

[ggwhiz]

When my partner bids like this they have a void which would be diamonds here or the clock is running down at the end of a speedball round.

Given your description of this partner the grand is certainly worth thinking about and even if on a red suit hook rates to have a good chance but with my regular partner I have too many diamonds to take care of. It might make anyway but with spade shortness of some degree behind me screwing with my possible crossruff (as well as modest diamond shortness on my right if the shape is more extreme) I'm not bidding it.

[The_Badger]

My thinking goes is that partner definitely needs the ♣A for the grand to be cold, and there's a 1 in 3 chance he has it. Add into the mix that there are other keycards, ♠A, ♥K and ♦K that might be needed - all depending on the distribution - I would definitely pass.

Surely he could have invented a forcing bid like 3♥ instead of jumping straight to 6♣ if his hand fitted that well. And if partner then bids 3NT, surely 4♣ would be forcing now instead of merely preference.

[nige1]

shyams, on 2017-June-25, 08:00, said:

---

Matchpoints - Both Vul
Competent partner -- though more skilled at card-play than bidding. Your side is playing 2/1 with the usual gadgets.
Partner's jump to slam was unexpected. Question is: Is thinking of a grand slam out of question? So, do you plan to bid on?

IMO when partner, without consultation, takes control, and leaps to slam, it can be frustrating, but usually he doesn't want you to bid on. For example. it might be a speculative effort. Nevertheless, you should risk the grand here, IMO

[MrAce]

The_Badger, on 2017-June-25, 12:43, said:

My thinking goes is that partner definitely needs the ♣A for the grand to be cold, and there's a 1 in 3 chance he has it. Add into the mix that there are other keycards, ♠A, ♥K and ♦K that might be needed - all depending on the distribution - I would definitely pass.

Surely he could have invented a forcing bid like 3♥ instead of jumping straight to 6♣ if his hand fitted that well. And if partner then bids 3NT, surely 4♣ would be forcing now instead of merely preference.

We definitely do not have ♥ loser. Pd MUST have at least one of the black aces for his bid. If he does not have ♠ A he should have ♥K or ♦K or 5th club for this bid. Now the question and most important thing is whether he has the ♣A or not?
I can easily construct hands where he can bid like this without ♠A (due to 2♠ overcall and our 3♦) but I am really having hard time to construct hands without ♣A.
I mean...how bad grand can be when I can not even come up with imaginary hands that makes sense with the auction and can not make grand or does not have a good play for grand?

[ggwhiz]

MrAce, on 2017-June-25, 13:04, said:

I can not even come up with imaginary hands that makes sense with the auction and can not make grand or does not have a good play for grand?

The 6♣ bid sucks big time if a grand has a good play. No RKC (you are allowed to key on diamonds and set it down in clubs) and a 4♣ bid by partner is forcing here even to a majority of novices. I can't come up with imaginary hands where the grand is good and neither of the above bids happened.

So this partner is a fine card player but not so great on bidding and I'm going to tell them that's my opinion by bidding the grand.

A stiff diamond with 4 clubs or a diamond void with 5 and I don't like my odds in the grand. Not that unlikely since they aren't afraid of a spade lead so should have 5 or more of those.

[neilkaz]

I showed extras with my 3♦ bid. I have significant extra strength. But perhaps PD is shooting 6♣ I've seen worse. If interested in a Grand why can't PD slow down the bidding with a great hand?

7 may be the % bid at MP in a good field, but I am passing to teach PD a lesson about slowing down the bidding with a great hand. And if he was shooting.. OK I will take my 12 tricks.

[MrAce]

ggwhiz, on 2017-June-25, 19:19, said:

The 6♣ bid sucks big time if a grand has a good play. No RKC (you are allowed to key on diamonds and set it down in clubs) and a 4♣ bid by partner is forcing here even to a majority of novices. I can't come up with imaginary hands where the grand is good and neither of the above bids happened.

So this partner is a fine card player but not so great on bidding and I'm going to tell them that's my opinion by bidding the grand.

A stiff diamond with 4 clubs or a diamond void with 5 and I don't like my odds in the grand. Not that unlikely since they aren't afraid of a spade lead so should have 5 or more of those.

LOL

Just listen to yourself, not to me. You admit that pd should have 5 or more spades and at least 4 clubs. Just this alone makes grand in the picture very much. EVEN IF YOU place the rest of the cards with no ♦ help you are making grand on a finesse. And that assumes pd is a moron and bid 6 ♣ only with

xxxxxx Kx x AJxx or xxxxxx Kxx Void AJxx

Seriously LOL! I am not LOL ing to insult you or anything like that. I am really laughing because you must have played with partners like this! If you change any of the remaining cards to a 5th ♣ you are almost cold for grand. If you change any of the remaining cards to something that makes sense with the auction, you have a great play for grand.

[alok c]

MrAce, on 2017-June-25, 22:31, said:

LOL

Just listen to yourself, not to me. You admit that pd should have 5 or more spades and at least 4 clubs. Just this alone makes grand in the picture very much. EVEN IF YOU place the rest of the cards with no ♦ help you are making grand on a finesse. And that assumes pd is a moron and bid 6 ♣ only with

xxxxxx Kx x AJxx or xxxxxx Kxx Void AJxx

Seriously LOL! I am not LOL ing to insult you or anything like that. I am really laughing because you must have played with partners like this! If you change any of the remaining cards to a 5th ♣ you are almost cold for grand. If you change any of the remaining cards to something that makes sense with the auction, you have a great play for grand.

From his bid,is it possible that he has KJxxx-x-xx-AJxxx?

[msjennifer]

I shall bid 7Club.
1) Partner bid six without knowing much about the club suit and more importantly
2) Why did he not make a temporising exploratory bid of 3H when it was available.
3) He did not bid 4NT or any such agreed bid.

[johnu]

alok c, on 2017-June-25, 23:37, said:

From his bid,is it possible that he has KJxxx-x-xx-AJxxx?

Certainly it is possible. If partner has that hand, it doesn't really matter whether you bid 7♣ or not because you probably aren't going to break average.

[dow1978]

slam

[rhm]

eagles123, on 2017-June-25, 09:22, said:

this is the sort of thing GIB will do, leap to slam when it has a ton of forcing bids it could make at a much lower level, leaving you with a wild guess as to whether a grand can make.

Which ton of unambiguously forcing bids at lower levels did partner have?
This was not an everyday standard sequence where most partnership have clear agreements what subsequent bids would show.
Say partner bids 3♥, because he wants to make a nice forcing, much lower level bid over 3♦.
You find your next bid, say 4♦ and partner now bids 6♣, because he can not find another clearly forcing bid.
What will the partnership have gained in this case?

Rainer Herrmann