[kenberg]

I have read the pinned piece by mikeh about reverses, and the subsequent comments as well. In the comments, mike notes that some people play that the 2S is a puppet to 3C but notes that this is not standard and that he himself doesn't play it. So let's assume that this is a natural auction. I'll get around to partner's bidding eventually, but for now I want to focus on mine (the responder)

Here is the hand:

---

Scoring is imps.
Two questions:
What calls mean what?
What to do?


A couple of stipulations:

A. I regard the 2S call as forcing, pass is not an option. Reject this if you like.
B. We are not playing Flannery, partner can reasonably expect that I do not have four spades.
C. The uncontested auction 1H-3D would have been Bergen. I mention this because with some people I play that with this shape but more strength it could go 1H-3D to show a good diamond hand that is not quite good enough for a game forcing 1H-2D. This, if we are to consider 1H-1NT-2S-3D we must allow for the possibility that if I had the stronger diamond hand the auction would still have begun 1H-1NT-2S.
D. We were playing constructive raises, so I assume that a bid now of 3H would be six points or so and three hearts.


We have not discussed if Lebensohl applies in this auction.

Now here is what I did.
1H-1NT-2S-2NT
I figured that if partner bid 3C, presumably thinking this was Leb, I would bid 3D and hope for the best. If partner passed 2NT, that might well be fine. Neither 3D nor 2NT looks great, but it seemed the best that I could hope for. Unfortunately, partner bid 3NT. Perfect defense holds me to six tricks, on the defense I got I could have made eight tricks, I actually made seven tricks.

I would not have bid my partner's hand as he had, but that's not my point and I won't distract from my purpose by showing it. I am thinking that my hand is not all that rare, so what do people do when they hold something like this and the auction begins 1H-1NT-2S?

[sfi]

Reverses are one of those areas where there is no real standard to fall back on, and you simply need to agree on something. Here it seems entirely reasonable to use 2NT as a weak way to get to the 3-level, with partner's 3C bid showing a minimum reverse (one that will accept a sign off at the 3-level). This fits in with my normal agreement that the lower of 2NT and the 4th suit shows weakness, and partner's next step allows responder to set the part-score. Everything else is game-forcing.

But without discussion, you simply have to hope you're on the same wavelength.

[JonnyQuest]

kenberg, on 2017-March-13, 14:37, said:

Now here is what I did.
1H-1NT-2S-2NT
I figured that if partner bid 3C, presumably thinking this was Leb, I would bid 3D and hope for the best.

Without discussion, assuming an advanced partner, I would think as you did.

[rmnka447]

Opener has made a reverse by bidding 2 ♠. So the first thing you need to know is what are you playing over reverses -- specifically what would be positive bids and what would be your signoff or possible signoff sequence?

If you're not playing 2 NT as Ingberman (2 NT relay->3 C), then I think 2 NT is the right bid even if it could be the start of a signoff. You do have stoppers in the unbid suits and about 7 points. 2 NT also gets out of the way so that opener can finish telling his/her story of the reversing hand.

If partner didn't have 17+ for this reverse sequence, that's his/her problem, not yours.

[mr1303]

As a thought, what would 3S be? Since I can't have 4 spades, 3 to an honour and a stiff heart is not that bad a holding.

[RichMor]

Hi Ken,

My simple opinion is Pass and offer a sincere 'GLP'.

This is a pile of quacks and plus 110 or 140 is the best I expect.

Rich M

[Jinksy]

If we were going to pass after partner made the best rebid we could have hoped to hear, we should have passed 1♥ in the first place.

(NB, I don't think we should have passed 1♥)

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I would assume, 2NT is Lebensohl, weak hand go through 2NT, strong hand bid direct,
maybe with the exception of 3H, but even than you could say a direct 3H is showing a
max. hand for the weak raise.

I go with 2NT, planning to sign of in 3D.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[nullve]

Gazzilli
Deleted

[ggwhiz]

kenberg, on 2017-March-13, 14:37, said:

A couple of stipulations:

A. I regard the 2S call as forcing, pass is not an option. Reject this if you like.
We have not discussed if Lebensohl applies in this auction.

A I do reject this but only in exceptional circumstances, ie. make my Q♣ an x so not an option with these cards

I would bid as you did and treat 3♣ as forced IF we discussed lebensohl at all. Even if it's patterning out I rate to end in 3♦ or some number of spades as below.

If 2nt goes float it's ok with me or if it goes 3♣ - 3♦ - 3♥ instead of float, I'll bid 3♠ and that should play ok too and may even get raised for a lose 6 or win 10 scenario.

[kenberg]

Clearly I am spending too much time at the bridge table because I had the same initial auction come up again. This time I will show both hands.

---

I bid 3NT, although 4H occurred to me. As mentioned earlier, we were playing constructive raises and the simplest meaning for 3H here would be that I hold three hearts and about six points. At any rate, I don't have three hearts and I decided to keep it simple and bid 3NT.

I note that neither 3NT nor 4H is an obvious make. Good chances, but on a club lead I might have to think a bit. If I take a losing heart finesse they may take a heart, a club, and three diamonds. But they started with diamonds and all was well. The spades divide evenly. The hearts are Jxxx offside and the club ruffing finesse doesn't work so I think in 4H they can get a heart and three diamonds. I don't see how to avoid it.

On the other hand partner was, in my opinion, light for his reverse. Here he isn't. But I still need some luck/help to bring this in.

The general consensus seems to be to play Leb after 1H-1N(forcing)2S. On this hand I would probably just bid 3NT no matter what we are playing. There should be a decent chance, and the less I tell about my hand the better. I like the idea above of raising 2S to 3S, although not on either of these hands. I think it should be strong enough to force game (so not the OP hand), and then have some shape so that a Moysian 4S is attractive (and that leaves out this hand).

I will now be suggesting that 2NT over the 2S be Leb. Among other things, that means that a six point hand with three hearts can go through Leb, and an eleven point hand with three hearts can bid an immediate 3H.

This all assumes that we remember this three years down the road when it comes up again.


As to 1H-1NT-2S-Pass, I can see the point. But it can make partner shaky if I start passing what seems to be a forcing bid. A long time ago reverses were strong but not forcing. But that was a long time ago.


Thanks for the thoughts.

[Zelandakh]

Have a think about how you want to play 2NT followed by 3NT, Ken. This is most commonly used as a slam try but one other option is to play it as choice of games with 2 hearts. One nice thing about this is that if partner forgets and passes with 6 hearts, you are probably just in the contract you would have been in if not playing it so it has not cost anything. On the other hand, the gain is not great so it is possibly just unnecessary baggage, especially if you or your partner suffer from memory strain. Something to think about at least...

[kenberg]

Zelandakh, on 2017-March-14, 10:08, said:

Have a think about how you want to play 2NT followed by 3NT, Ken. This is most commonly used as a slam try but one other option is to play it as choice of games with 2 hearts. One nice thing about this is that if partner forgets and passes with 6 hearts, you are probably just in the contract you would have been in if not playing it so it has not cost anything. On the other hand, the gain is not great so it is possibly just unnecessary baggage, especially if you or your partner suffer from memory strain. Something to think about at least...

Probably not something that comes up very often, to put it mildly, but the doubleton heart idea sounds right, especially something like Kx. It's not just that partner could have six hearts, for example on the OP hand he did, but also it might be right to play in a strong 5-2 fit. On this second posted hand 4H can be easily beaten. GIB says 3NT can always be made, even on a club lead, and so it can. All I have to do is win the club on the board and lead a small heart, finessing with the 9 when rho plays small. With the spades splitting take ten tricks. And I would do that. Sure I would. .

So in the real world neither 4H nor 3NT is all that great. But it could be useful to have a way to bring partner in on the decision. Shifts the blame, if nothing else.


An aside, brought to mind by the making of 3NT on a club lead:
I may write up something on why GIB should be taken with a serious grain of salt. I was watching the Vanderbilt yesterday. In a competitive auction a pair got to 5S and the opponents had to decide whether to sac or not in 6D or maybe 6H. At first the commentators thought they had too much defense to do so, but then they realized 5S could be made. When the opps bid 6D this was greeted with congratulations. Fair enough. At the other table the contract was a could be made 5SX. But declarer made a reasonable start of drawing two rounds of trump after which the contract could be, and was, defeated. Even at very high levels, there is a difference between what GIB can make seeing all cards and what humans will make.