[kenberg]

This hand is almost too weird to put up, but here it is.

I alerted 3NT

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We had agreed to play leb, slow shows, and I believe we had agreed that when they come in with two suits, with one of the suits being the suit that was bid, Leb refers to that suit. So partner has shown the values for 3NT but w/o a heart stopper. Well, maybe my Q will hold up, I don't have any better ideas, so I passed.

I alerted the 3NT, nobody asked its meaning, a spade was led. Partner announced as he put down the dummy that he thought he had bid this wrong. I now have 12 tricks.I made 13, I won't bother to explain.

So why do I bring this up? I have noticed that people bid DONT on hands like W has. If they are going to come in with 2H on such a hand, maybe we should just forget about showing stoppers?

I have also been thinking that after a DONT 2H a sensible use of 2S would be Minor Suit Stayman. So after 1NT-(2H) a bid of 3m is natural and forcing, a bid of 2S asks opener for a four card or longer minor. And then we can sort out stops. Alternatively, 2S could show immediately a spade stop. Which seems reasonable except that if 2H can be on a four card suit headed by the 8 we probably don't need to find our minor fit or look for stoppers. People are getting very rambunctious these days. Just sayin'.

Thus a question: : After 1NT-( DONT 2H) what are your agreements?

[Infidel]

I play this with one other person on the planet (he's also insane): We build responder's bids around the meaning of overcaller's bids (not necessarily on the suit called). Since 2H here explicitly shows H and S, I promote my H stop to a "suit," and bid it as a c-H 2-suiter: 2N transfers to clubs,and after opener completes the transfer, I bid 2d to show hearts...at this point, there is limited value in completing the transfer, unless opener wants to inquire about the length/quality of the club suit. Here, S would bid 2N over 2d (he still doesn't know responder's strength, but has no worries about d or S) and N has the easy raise. Can't help you on getting to the slam

If there had been a 2d Capp overcall, showing the same HS hand, we'd have been able to double 2d to show the H stopper, followed by 2S, showing clubs...similar results, and explicitly denying the S stopper. When the opponents' system identifies only one suit, we still our stopper to a "suit" in building responses, but the "blabbermouth" explicit 2-suiters make it work really nicely...sometimes even have a "4-suiter"

[ggwhiz]

To me DONT means DON'T cater your methods to people that play it like this. They will beat themselves.

For us the lebensohl thing is sort of inverted. 2♠ shows in that suit, vulnerable in hearts and 3nt shows hearts, vulnerable in spades and they both have MSS implications when notrump doesn't suit opener.

Of course if you are not vulnerable in either you start with double or 3m forcing if that suits the hand better and opener can express their opinion on 1 or both majors. 2nt followed by 3nt expresses doubt, usually with 1 long minor and a sketchy holding in a major.