BBO Discussion Forums: Bidding Problems for I/N players Part 22 - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1

Bidding Problems for I/N players Part 22 Ramifications of a reverse

#1 User is offline   Kaitlyn S 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,092
  • Joined: 2016-July-31
  • Gender:Female

Posted 2017-February-22, 15:08

Hi - these problems should be very easy for experienced players but an I/N player needs to think about the right things in an auction. If you get them wrong, don't feel too bad as long as you understand the rationale for the answers. I'll provide the answers later but I'll put a hint as a spoiler. Try to solve the problem without the spoiler. Also, let me know if you would be interested in seeing more of these from time to time.

Assume you are playing Standard American (a natural system with 15-17 1NT openings and 5-card majors), IMPS, and nobody is vulnerable.

Some background. Let's look at this auction:



North could be minimum and yet if North has two or less hearts and not enough spades to rebid them, North is going to have to bid 2NT or at the three level. In a non-competitive auction, two minimum hands should strive to stay below 2NT, but South's 2H bid has potentially pushed the partnership past a safe level for two minimum hands. South should not bid like this with a minimum hand. The fact that South is potentially pushing the partnership this high means that South should have extra values. This 2H bid is called a reverse. A reverse is a bid that forces a potentially minimum partner to go to the three level to take a preference for your first bid suit (3D here.) A reverse normally shows one of two hand types:

(1) At least 5 cards in the first suit, at least 4 cards in the second suit, more cards in the first suit than in the second (you do NOT reverse with equal length just to show strength), and about 18 or more points (counting length) with two decent suits (if all the cards are in your two suits, you might do it with 17.)

or (2) at least 6 cards in the first suit, at least 5 cards in the second suit, more cards in the first suit than the second, and more that a bare minimum opener (enough strength that you think there is safety at the 3 level of your second suit or 4 of your first suit opposite a minimum.)

A reverse is forcing. The person bidding 2H in the above sequence could possibly have 21 points.

A possible hand type that doesn't fit one of the first two is a "fake" reverse if you deem it necessary to make up a forcing bid. For example,

Here, South might fake a 2D reverse to create a forcing situation as no number of clubs shows the value of this hand and still keeps 3NT in the picture.

A good thread on reverses can be found here:

Mikeh's reverse primer

So let's try some problems. A possible answer is "I would not have opened 1D in the first place and now have no good bid."

1.

Spoiler



2.

Spoiler



3.

Spoiler



4.

Spoiler



5.

Spoiler



6.

Spoiler

0

#2 User is offline   NickRW 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,951
  • Joined: 2008-April-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sussex, England

Posted 2017-February-22, 16:53

Why did I not open the last hand 1NT in the first place?
"Pass is your friend" - my brother in law - who likes to bid a lot.
1

#3 User is offline   sfi 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,576
  • Joined: 2009-May-18
  • Location:Oz

Posted 2017-February-22, 17:07

View PostNickRW, on 2017-February-22, 16:53, said:

Why did I not open the last hand 1NT in the first place?


I suspect that might be the point of the lesson.
0

#4 User is offline   mycroft 

  • Secretary Bird
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 7,457
  • Joined: 2003-July-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary, D18; Chapala, D16

Posted 2017-February-22, 17:17

View PostKaitlyn S, on 2017-February-22, 15:08, said:

So let's try some problems. A possible answer is "I would not have opened 1D in the first place and now have no good bid."

Nothing to say here, I just like looking at it.
When I go to sea, don't fear for me, Fear For The Storm -- Birdie and the Swansong (tSCoSI)
0

#5 User is offline   NickRW 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,951
  • Joined: 2008-April-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sussex, England

Posted 2017-February-23, 04:50

Ah well. They say always read the instructions on the tin!
"Pass is your friend" - my brother in law - who likes to bid a lot.
0

#6 User is offline   Kaitlyn S 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,092
  • Joined: 2016-July-31
  • Gender:Female

Posted 2017-February-23, 11:49

Answers:

1.

Hint: No bid describes your hand. What is the least bad lie?
2c
Answer: If you bid 2H, you are showing significantly more strength than you have, which will likely result in partner driving the contract too high, unless you later pass a forcing bid which could result in a missed game and will erode partnership confidence. You have a minimum opener. Let's examine the options for a minimum opener.

2D: Tends to show 6. Expert Marty Bergen promotes the idea of treating a chunky five-carder as a six-card suit so maybe this isn't too bad, but your partner, with a minimum response, will usually pass, possibly leaving you in a 5-1 fit.

1NT: The lack of a diamond stopper is a minor concern, we rebid 1NT with an unbid suit unstopped all the time. What concerns me is the fact that I am showing a balanced hand, and partner with spade length may insist on spades thinking I have a doubleton. In fact, while responder rebidding spades would usually show a 6-card suit, your 1NT rebid gives partner permission to play in 2S with a five-card suit if he thinks he will lack entries to use his spades in notrump. For example, if partner holds:

he will be justified in thinking his hand might produce two or three more tricks in spades than in notrump if either you don't hold the A or if spades don't run. Do you want to play in 2S on these cards?

2S: This indeed shows a minimum but partner will be somewhat disappointed with your trump support.

2C: Note that this is not a strength-showing reverse because partner has the option of returning to your first suit at the two-level, so bidding 2C with a minimum hand won't get your side too high.

2C could be a minimum or medium opener (a maximum would jump shift to 3C). It also shows unbalanced distribution including at least four clubs, and usually at least five diamonds. It is not forcing. Do you really want clubs as trump if partner passes?

All the choices are not that good, but 2D seems the least bad; if partner passes, at least you have good trumps. I recommend 2D.


2.

Hint: No bid describes your hand. What is the least bad lie?

Answer: Again, you are far short on strength to rebid 2H. Whereas last time, I suggested 2D on the chunky five-card suit, this time playing in 2D opposite a singleton (or even a small doubleton) is not likely to be a success as it will be hard to avoid four trump losers. You don't have the length to support spades or rebid clubs, but this time the downsides of bidding 1NT are missing. Yes, I am aware that your 1NT bid shows a balanced hand and that means not having two doubletons. But what is the downside? If partner insists on spades, I have the two promised spades. I have both unbid suits stopped which is an extra bonus. Furthermore, in standard bidding, responder can bid 2H with a weak hand with 5 spades and 4 hearts and you will find your 4-4 fit - the 1NT rebid changed the rules for responder's new suits.

I recommend 1NT.

3.

Hint: No bid describes your hand. What is the least bad lie?

Answer: 2H shows much more strength. 1NT is awful with a singleton in an unbid suit (what do you think the opponents are likely to lead after partner raises you to 3NT?). 2D risks playing in 2D opposite a singleton diamond. What about 2S?

In some partnerships (or some parts of the world) this might not even be a lie - I know many decent players that routinely raise their partner's major suit response (which shows 4 or more cards) on 3-card support when their hand isn't suitable for notrump. However, in standard bidding as usually taught here in the USA, the raise shows four-card support. If partner is minimum, you may play in 2S with your A93 opposite his four small trump.

Is that so awful? Your singleton club could produce a couple of club ruffs, the AK and A will produce tricks, and that gets you up to five tricks if partner has nothing; surely he'll have some potential with a couple of high cards and his trump length. I've given you the worst-case scenario here, partner could have a fifth spade or could have a decent four-card suit which would make 2S an excellent contract which would be hard to reach if you didn't raise.

Are you afraid of reaching 4S when partner bids game on four awful trump? Occasionally you do have to raise on three even if you "promise" four and partner will often bid 3NT to cater to that possibility rather than leaping to the spade game with four small trump.

I recommend 2S.

4.

Hint: What bid best describes this hand?

Answer: You have a balanced hand with 18-19 points and there is a bid that shows that. I recommend 2NT.

Are you afraid of clubs? Misdescribing the shape of your hand because of a lack of stopper could lead to a bad contract - if you bid 2H which promises 5 diamonds, you may encourage partner to bid a diamond slam with three-card support (your three small clubs will be a problem there too) and you will be poorly placed if partner bids 2S (most pairs play this shows 5 after a reverse) or 3D (which many pairs play as forcing, but even if you play it non-forcing, you may be playing without sufficient trumps.)


5.

Hint: Do you have to jump to get another bid?

Answer: Here you have a strong hand - 21 points counting length. You want to make sure you reach game. You might think you have to jump to 3H to force, but since the simple reverse (2H) is forcing, there is no need to jump. You won't mislead partner; if partner makes a bid that could be minimum, your next bid insisting on game will show that you didn't just reverse on 17.

The downside of bidding 3H is that if partner doesn't have a heart fit, your best game might be 3NT and if partner doesn't have a club stopper or extra spade length, partner will bypass 3NT.

You may wonder why you don't just bid 3NT. If partner has four hearts, your best contract might be 4H or 6H and you've just buried the heart suit. (I think 3NT shows a different hand type, but that's beyond the scope of this thread.)

6.

Hint: Do you wish to describe an "all red" hand to partner?

Answer:
Some newer players learned that to open 1NT, you must have a balanced hand (no voids, no singletons, not more that one doubleton) in the correct point range. This hand has two doubletons.

However, those are guidelines to get the new player started playing. As we gain experience, we learn to plan our rebid before making our first bid. If you open 1D and partner bids 1S (not unexpected), you will have to bid 2H to show your hearts. You have a minimum reverse if your suits are good, but they aren't. By bidding 2H, you are overstating your red suits and your desire to have a red suit as trump.

Let's say the layout is this:



Your best contract is 3NT - even on a spade lead (by no means a given), you make if diamonds are 3-2 and spades are 4-3 or blocked by promoting one heart trick. On the other hand, in 5D, you probably lose at least two hearts and one spade.

Partner who thinks you are striving to play in a red suit won't let you play 3NT once you bid 2H - after all, from his point of view, there might be five spades for the taking for the opponents opposite your likely singleton - and yet since he holds the AQ, you must have all the rest of the high cards in the red suits plus a club card to give you enough to reverse, so 5D should be easy. This is a likely scenario from partner's point of view:



How can you have any less in the red suits and be focusing on a red trump suit? Here, you have an easy 5D contract while 3NT is in danger in the spade suit. The scoring is IMPS (specified in the opening post) so partner doesn't have the excuse of hoping not to get a spade lead to score 60 extra points in notrump for a top score - partner is going to just try for the safest contract.

Looking ahead to the second round, you can see that you really don't want to reverse to 2H. However, rebidding 2NT overstates your strength and 1NT understates your strength. The solution? Don't open 1D. Open 1NT despite the two doubletons. Little harm can come to you as partner only expects two card support in any suit. With the same strength and shape but most of your high cards in the red suits, opening 1D and rebidding 2H would be fine.

Having opened 1D, I would probably bid 2H or jump to 2NT now and hope for the best, and apologize to partner if it doesn't work out. The recommended action is to have opened 1NT a round earlier.

View PostNickRW, on 2017-February-22, 16:53, said:

Why did I not open the last hand 1NT in the first place?
Now, there's someone who looked ahead. :D
0

#7 User is offline   bravejason 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 109
  • Joined: 2015-May-12

Posted 2017-February-23, 15:17

Hands 2 and 3 would be easy to bid if you opened 4 card majors, wouldn't they?
0

#8 User is offline   NickRW 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,951
  • Joined: 2008-April-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sussex, England

Posted 2017-February-23, 16:51

View Postbravejason, on 2017-February-23, 15:17, said:

Hands 2 and 3 would be easy to bid if you opened 4 card majors, wouldn't they?


Not really - unless you're playing a canapé system (i.e. a system where you tend to call the shorter of 2 long suits). And that is a rarity these days.
"Pass is your friend" - my brother in law - who likes to bid a lot.
0

#9 User is offline   Tramticket 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,103
  • Joined: 2009-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kent (Near London)

Posted 2017-February-25, 03:59

View Postbravejason, on 2017-February-23, 15:17, said:

Hands 2 and 3 would be easy to bid if you opened 4 card majors, wouldn't they?

No, playing 4-card majors, you will still open 1D on hands 2 and 3. Hand 2 is particularly awkward and if playing Acol (4-card majors plus a weak NT) and I would choose to open 1NT.

On hand 4, you can open 1H and rebid 2NT. This has the advantage that you communicate to partner both significant features of the hand - balanced 18-19 AND 4-card heart suit. (Although some versions of 4-card majors would still choose to open the minor first if 4-4 in a major and minor).
0

#10 User is offline   Liversidge 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 424
  • Joined: 2014-January-22
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sleaford, Lincolnshire
  • Interests:Bridge, Gardening, DIY, Travel

Posted 2017-February-26, 04:04

Delete
0

#11 User is offline   Liversidge 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 424
  • Joined: 2014-January-22
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sleaford, Lincolnshire
  • Interests:Bridge, Gardening, DIY, Travel

Posted 2017-February-26, 04:48

No5. !!

I had forgotten that a reverse is unlimited!
0

#12 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,250
  • Joined: 2009-July-13
  • Location:England

Posted 2017-February-27, 03:30

1 is interesting looking at it as an Acol player. Adjusting what I play to strong NT we'd rebid 2 or 1N without batting an eyelid and never consider pulling 1N to 2 with the hand you gave.

Absolutely agree with all the other hands.
0

#13 User is offline   Zelandakh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,705
  • Joined: 2006-May-18
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 2017-February-27, 08:13

Some of these are interesting to point out regional variations within the strong NT, 5 card major family. I think many would, for example, consider a 1NT rebid on #1 whereas in France and Germany noone would rebid anything other than 2 and might consider the idea of that showing 6 strange. Similarly for #3, 2 is absolutely the correct rebid in the Anglo-American style but in SEF and Forum D this is a clear 2 rebid despite the poor suit; a raise promises 4 card support, always! Finally, the issues with a reverse on #6 are overstated. If Responder rebids 3, Opener can continue 3NT on the given hand and with something else (probably 4) on the alternative hand. Yes it is not perfect on these hands but it allows you to keep your balanced hands pure and is a playable style.

A final note here to say that I am not disagreeing with you on the answers. I personally dislike the Franco-German style and think it significantly less than optimal but it is nonetheless perhaps worth pointing out (again) that answers to bidding questions like this do depend heavily on system, particularly if we have any lurkers that take lessons away that might lead them into difficulties once they head into their local bridge club.
(-: Zel :-)
0

#14 User is offline   Kaitlyn S 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,092
  • Joined: 2016-July-31
  • Gender:Female

Posted 2017-February-27, 11:26

View PostZelandakh, on 2017-February-27, 08:13, said:

but it is nonetheless perhaps worth pointing out (again) that answers to bidding questions like this do depend heavily on system, particularly if we have any lurkers that take lessons away that might lead them into difficulties once they head into their local bridge club.
I see your point. I wonder if I should put a disclaimer in the beginning of each set. It's actually great that you guys point out the regional differences because I'm unaware of them and an European novice reading this may correctly think my advice contradicts what he has learned, and it might be good that he knows that.
0

#15 User is offline   rmnka447 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,366
  • Joined: 2012-March-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Illinois
  • Interests:Bridge, Golf, Soccer

Posted 2017-February-27, 19:39

Kaitlyn -- great set for the I/N about whether to reverse or not.

I'm aboard with your answers also.

Just a commnent about #6.

5-4-2-2 hands are "semi balanced" hands meaning sometimes you treat them as balanced and sometimes as unbalanced. If the high cards lie mostly in the doubletons, then treating the hand as balanced is usually right. If the values are concentrated in the long suits, then treating them as unbalanced is usually right.

In your example hand,

A3
Q762
K7642
AK

the values are definitely concentrated in the doubletons. So, treating the hand as balanced and opening a strong 1 NT is right as Nick RW suggested and you concurred.

OTOH, if the hand were

63
AKQ2
AK742
76

everything is concentrated in the long suits, so it's best to treat it as unbalanced and reverse into 2 .
0

#16 User is offline   bravejason 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 109
  • Joined: 2015-May-12

Posted 2017-February-28, 06:54

View PostTramticket, on 2017-February-25, 03:59, said:

No, playing 4-card majors, you will still open 1D on hands 2 and 3. Hand 2 is particularly awkward and if playing Acol (4-card majors plus a weak NT) and I would choose to open 1NT.
...


The idea is that playing 4-card majors, recognizing that that opening 1D has a rebid problem, and seeing that the diamond suit is weak then you would suppress the 5 card minor suit and bid your good major suit instead.
0

#17 User is offline   Zelandakh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,705
  • Joined: 2006-May-18
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 2017-February-28, 08:55

View Postbravejason, on 2017-February-28, 06:54, said:

The idea is that playing 4-card majors, recognizing that that opening 1D has a rebid problem, and seeing that the diamond suit is weak then you would suppress the 5 card minor suit and bid your good major suit instead.

This is something players did a lot in the early days of the system but quickly disappeared as experience showed it to be a really bad idea. It is particularly problematic to bring it up (apparently positively) in the N/B forum where some might actually take up the idea and thereby go backwards in their bridge development.
(-: Zel :-)
1

#18 User is offline   NickRW 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,951
  • Joined: 2008-April-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sussex, England

Posted 2017-February-28, 10:35

View Postbravejason, on 2017-February-28, 06:54, said:

The idea is that playing 4-card majors, recognizing that that opening 1D has a rebid problem, and seeing that the diamond suit is weak then you would suppress the 5 card minor suit and bid your good major suit instead.


Nice idea, but it gives responder the wrong picture of your hand. It works in a canapé (or possible canapé system like the Blue Club) because responder is expecting the second suit to be at least as long as the first. But if the expectation is the other way round, you can end up playing some 4=2 fits and such like. And canapé systems have their own problems.

There is no perfect solution to the problem (otherwise we'd all be playing the same system).
"Pass is your friend" - my brother in law - who likes to bid a lot.
0

Page 1 of 1


Fast Reply

  

12 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 12 guests, 0 anonymous users