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Crawling Stayman vs INV with 5-4 majors?

#21 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2016-November-02, 03:26

View Postjohnu, on 2016-October-31, 11:31, said:

Standard treatment is that a 2 rebid shows 4 spades, and 2 shows 4 hearts. Both are invitational+.

2 showing 4+ hearts and INV+ values is also what I play but using 2 to promise 4 spades is inefficient as there is more bidding space available here. I use it to ask for a 4 card suit but it also comfortably covers invites to 3NT that are not interested in a heart fit and Baron hands looking for a minor suit slam.


View Postjallerton, on 2016-November-01, 17:36, said:

To profit from playing 2 of a major suit compared with 1NT you need to be making an extra trick in the suit contract (whether the contract makes or not). Yes a 4-4 fit will normally provide that extra trick but surely that is not the case with 4-3s with no outside shortage in the 3-card trump holding: you are quite right that 1NT contracts are easier to play than defend and on average tend to make more tricks than double dummy analysis would suggest. In essence, using Stayman on 4432 hands is a gamble than partner holds a 4-card major (approx. a 50% chance I believe, depending on 1NT opening style) when you will usually, but not always, gain by finding your 4-4 fit.

There is a third option on 4432 hands, namely using Stayman and passing any response. That will typically gain if Opener has a 4 card major or 5 card diamond suit and lose big if partner has 3334 or 5 clubs. And in the 3325 case, you might need an understanding partner (or team mates) to explain why you are playing in your 5 card fit!
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#22 User is offline   jallerton 

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Posted 2016-November-02, 16:11

View PostZelandakh, on 2016-November-02, 03:26, said:

There is a third option on 4432 hands, namely using Stayman and passing any response. That will typically gain if Opener has a 4 card major or 5 card diamond suit and lose big if partner has 3334 or 5 clubs. And in the 3325 case, you might need an understanding partner (or team mates) to explain why you are playing in your 5 card fit!


Yes, that's a reasonable option, especially with 4=4=3=2 in that order. If 4=4=2=3, the chance of 2 being a sensible spot is much lower. It's probably also more attractive at matchpoints, when the frequency of the gains is more important than the severity of the stupidity of the contract you end up in when partner doesn't make the hoped-for response.
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#23 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2016-November-02, 17:19

View PostZelandakh, on 2016-October-31, 05:00, said:

A common trick is to specific that one of the majors has to be at least 5 cards long meaning that Opener can always give preference to that suit with an equal length and will have a reasonable landing place with 2-2 in the majors.


Btw, it seems as though you can get the same benefit from just stating that if you bid Stayman (then 2) on 5-4 in the majors, it will always be with a particular 5-card suit. P will then virtually always pass/correct to that suit with equal length in the majors, and the only real downside is you'll occasionally play in your Moyesian rather than a 5-2.
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