[Kaitlyn S]

Please answer this if you are one of the people who benefits or could benefit from the future from my columns entitled "Bidding Problems for Novices." If most of you play these one way, I can use that as a framework for the problems.

The poll is going to ask you if you think a new suit advance (Left hand opponent OPENS, partner OVERCALLS, responder PASSES, you bid a new suit which is NOT the opener's suit) is forcing in three situations.

(a) Your advance is on the one level
(b) Your advance is on the two level after partner overcalled at the one level
© Your advance is on the two level after partner overcalled at the two level

[hrothgar]

 Kaitlyn S, on 2016-September-30, 11:34, said:

Please answer this if you are one of the people who benefits or could benefit from the future from my columns entitled "Bidding Problems for Novices." If most of you play these one way, I can use that as a framework for the problems.

The poll is going to ask you if you think a new suit advance (Left hand opponent OPENS, partner OVERCALLS, responder PASSES, you bid a new suit which is NOT the opener's suit) is forcing in three situations.

(a) Your advance is on the one level
(b) Your advance is on the two level after partner overcalled at the one level
© Your advance is on the two level after partner overcalled at the two level

Please invest some time in learning how to use hand diagrams

Its not rocket science

[Kaitlyn S]

 hrothgar, on 2016-September-30, 11:44, said:

Please invest some time in learning how to use hand diagrams

Its not rocket science

You will note hand diagrams in some of my other posts. They aren't in this one because I didn't feel it was appropriate.

Also, the game has given a lot to you, and you know a lot about it. Why not give back by helping the novice players improve? It's not rocket science.

[Kaitlyn S]

I voted for "other" so I could see the running results with one less click - I would not vote for "other" normally.

Thank you to the moderator that deleted my two "Please Ignore" posts almost immediately!

[NickRW]

I'm not a novice, so I won't vote - but I would have expected these to be forcing provided that South is an unpassed hand. Or, at least, I expect that to be the case in the beginner/novice forum.

At the very least I would expect, again in the context of the forum we're in, all sequences to be treated the same as the memory overhead for which ones are/are not forcing gets too much.

Nick

[helene_t]

I think this topic is somewhat beyond novice level - many intermediates haven't discussed this with partner, and/or are not aware that it is partnership dependent.

[NickRW]

 helene_t, on 2016-October-03, 04:06, said:

I think this topic is somewhat beyond novice level - many intermediates haven't discussed this with partner, and/or are not aware that it is partnership dependent.

I agree it not the most basic of material. Equally, however, from my observation, there are many "experienced" duplicate players who have *never* learnt this stuff. And one of the reasons that they've never learnt it is because nobody has ever made any sort of concerted effort to teach them simply because it "isn't beginner material". Yet this concerns matters that come up every third board.

[wfinger]

Kaitlyn S:
Thanks for all the novice info and practice bidding. I tried to respond in that area but kept getting a "server error" message.
Thanks again!
Bill Finger

[Kaitlyn S]

 helene_t, on 2016-October-03, 04:06, said:

I think this topic is somewhat beyond novice level - many intermediates haven't discussed this with partner, and/or are not aware that it is partnership dependent.

I agree with everything you say here. The fact that it is partnership dependent is precisely why it is so seldom discussed to newer players. However, I have got several posts and private messages from players that say that this is an area in which novices need a lot of work, and asked me to discuss it mainly for the reason that nobody will. I don't think this is exactly true, Mike Lawrence has written an entire book on overcalls and another entire book on doubles, but his material is far beyond the scope of a novice, and it chooses one of the many possible ways to play.

I believe that one of the reasons I was asked to talk about this subject is that players have seen their opponents commit atrocities such as this:

---

I'm going to discuss this auction only because there might be a novice reading this that doesn't see a problem with the auction, other than that E-W are in game with 20 points.

First, the 2C bid. I have seen this "convenient minor" overcall made by many players on BBO that call themselves expert and advanced players, and it is not just bad, it is outrageous. You are committing your side to take 8 tricks with no guarantee of a fit or more than 14 combined points, and you do not have a long suit for a safety net. When you overcall 2C, the expectation is that you can take 8 tricks with clubs as trumps if partner has an average hand (after taking out your hand and the opening hand.) If partner has a wretched hand, you are going to play 2C, perhaps doubled. Partner isn't expected to pull this double with weakness and a crummy 5-card suit. You can run yourself, but you are only making matters worse; the higher you bid, the more likely you will have bypassed the contract in which you will give up the smallest telephone number (sorry novices, that's slang for a penalty which is 4 digits.)

The sad thing is that, as bad as this bid is, I have seen it committed by two different pick-up partners who labelled themselves advanced, and joined the competitive team games which in theory attract a higher class of players - and two is an unusually high number considering that I haven't played here that often. So if you are a novice and you didn't see anything wrong with 2C, you are in good company, but I can assure you that I will have the support of the entire true expert community when I say that 2C is a terrible bid. When you overcall at the two level, you show five cards. Many experts like six cards or extra values or shape; they might be a little more lenient with a 2H overcall of 1S since it's a lot easier to make 4H than 5 of a minor.

With no five-card suit to overcall, not enough to bid 1NT, and the wrong shape for a takeout double, West's only real choice is to pass.

Next bid. East advances 2H. (Advance = "respond" to your partner's overcall. When I talk about bidding, "responder" is always the opening bidder's partner.) Although there are many different approaches to advancing overcalls, none of them would do anything but pass with this East hand after West bids 2C. You need to respond to your partner's opening bid with 6 points because 20 and 21 point hands are in the range for the opening bidder. However, those hands are not in the range for an overcall (see the Bidding Problems for Novices 6 introduction) so you don't need to keep the bidding open with 6 points. If partner is allowed to play 2C, it is extremely unlikely you missed a game, and you are probably in the best spot. If partner does have four hearts, it means that your side has eight hearts and at least eight clubs, so the opponents have lots of diamonds and spades and allowed you to play 2C. This should make you happy.

For a West that thinks he's bidding a convenient minor, I suppose that 2S is normal.

Anytime that partner can be minimum, 2NT is an invitational hand showing medium strength (about 11.) Before the experts crucify me, I might make that bid with the perfect 9-count in this auction - but I'm aware that I'm showing more. East invited West to bid game with 15 or a good 14 point hand. If I were East filling in after another East clicked on 2H and then left, I would take West back to his first bid suit, 3C, assuming we were in a 5-3 fit.

West's idea of a "good 14" is different than mine - this hand has no source of tricks, poor spots, and no help for partner's hearts (his possible source of tricks.) West has little hope of the fourth diamond becoming good since South opened diamonds. Maybe North would have doubled 2NT also but even so, West just gave up an extra 300 points.

So yes, while this maybe a topic that is beyond novice level, I do agree with the players who wrote to me and suggested that novices should have the most rudimentary knowledge to avoid debacles like the one I just described. However, given that many BBO "experts" still have these atrocities, you may have a point that I may be overreaching when I try to explain these concepts to novices. For there could be many a novice that reads my explanation and has many questions, like "Why don't you overcall with 20 points?" and to answer all those questions is going to take us well out of the novice category, and perhaps, as you suggest, even out of the intermediate category.