[manudude03]

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MPs scoring, weak field. You get the ♦5 lead (standard leads, second from xxx). Plan the play.

[Kaitlyn S]

manudude03, on 2016-September-01, 11:45, said:

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MPs scoring, weak field. You get the ♦5 lead (standard leads, second from xxx). Plan the play.

Spoiler

I win in hand and finesse the CQ. If it wins, I give up a spade, and hope that I only lose 2 trump tricks. If they take their diamond ruff, the hand is pretty safe to play now, win H-AK and run diamonds. One spade goes on the fifth diamond, one goes on the CA and one gets ruffed late.

Say they win the spade and lead a second diamond, all following. It's bad for someone to ruff with a doubleton trump so I play H-AK and run diamonds and hope they can't trump, draw my last trump, and play spades. I need 3-3 hearts or a doubleton HQ.

If the CQ loses, I'll try to drop the HQ.

I think this line is better than trying to lead the H5 from the board at trick 2, intending to play the H8 if East plays low (assuming that "weak field" means "will play the HQ if he has it.") The possibility of losing HQ, D ruff, spade, D ruff combined with trying to untangle things when they win the HQ and lead spades just makes this line too messy.

[MrAce]

Kaitlyn S, on 2016-September-01, 12:27, said:

Spoiler

I win in hand and finesse the CQ. If it wins, I give up a spade, and hope that I only lose 2 trump tricks. If they take their diamond ruff, the hand is pretty safe to play now, win H-AK and run diamonds. One spade goes on the fifth diamond, one goes on the CA and one gets ruffed late.

Say they win the spade and lead a second diamond, all following. It's bad for someone to ruff with a doubleton trump so I play H-AK and run diamonds and hope they can't trump, draw my last trump, and play spades. I need 3-3 hearts or a doubleton HQ.

If the CQ loses, I'll try to drop the HQ.

I think this line is better than trying to lead the H5 from the board at trick 2, intending to play the H8 if East plays low (assuming that "weak field" means "will play the HQ if he has it.") The possibility of losing HQ, D ruff, spade, D ruff combined with trying to untangle things when they win the HQ and lead spades just makes this line too messy.

Quote

I win in hand and finesse the CQ. If it wins, I give up a spade, and hope that I only lose 2 trump tricks. If they take their diamond ruff, the hand is pretty safe to play now, win H-AK and run diamonds. One spade goes on the fifth diamond, one goes on the CA and one gets ruffed late"

When diamonds are 3-1 your line does not work even if the club finesse works and even if the hearts are 3-3 (which you thought you are making if that is the case, you are wrong)
Your line does not work even if they take their ♦ ruff or decide not to.
If they take ♦ ruff you need them to be ruffing from Qxx ♥.
So you are also wrong about being safe when they take diamond ruff, even with 3-3 ♥ break and they ruffed from xxx or 4-2 ♥ break and they ruffed from Qxxx.
When they win the spade, they will simply play spades. they do not even need to take ♦ ruff right away but if they do, spade play will still defeat you.

I am not saying that your line is bad. All I am saying is that it does not work with the conditions that you thought it does.
As a matter of fact, your line goes down even when diamonds are 2-2 and hearts are 3-3. Assume they won the spade and played 2nd diamond and you saw diamonds were 2-2. You said you will cash AK of hearts and play diamonds. Well guess what, one of them will ruff (the one with small trump, not with Q) and play spades. you ruff with 5 but still have 2 more spades, one of them going on ♣A but other one will be 4th loser because if you play 4th ♦ they will ruff with Q and cash spade.

[The_Badger]

hi manudude03,

My card play isn't what it used to be - I'll probably need 15 minutes or so to find the right play - but the bidding is what I want justified!

North's opening is 1♣ 16+ which I assume is Precision, South has one of those impossible negative 4441 hands. 4♥ in a Moysian is not where you want to be!

So 1♥ in the bidding is 6-8 and 4♥+ Talk about the principle of fast arrival in a difficult contract. Crash, bang, wallop. Not exactly precise!

[manudude03]

The_Badger, on 2016-September-01, 16:45, said:

hi manudude03,

My card play isn't what it used to be - I'll probably need 15 minutes or so to find the right play - but the bidding is what I want justified!

North's opening is 1♣ 16+ which I assume is Precision, South has one of those impossible negative 4441 hands. 4♥ in a Moysian is not where you want to be!

So 1♥ in the bidding is 6-8 and 4♥+ Talk about the principle of fast arrival in a difficult contract. Crash, bang, wallop. Not exactly precise!

When asked to name it, I just call it a strong club system, though my partner calls it "a one club with a one diamond response" whatever that means. I posted the basics of it on BBF a while back and needless to say, they went to town with it. But anyway, you can complain about the contract and the bidding until you are blue in the face, but you still need to come up with a line at the table!

[alok c]

It can be played if West has ♣K & East has 2-4-1-6 distribution with HQ.

[rhm]

This is obviously not a good contract and you are in great danger of losing 4 tricks in spades and trumps.
To make this contract you somehow have to draw trumps to enjoy your diamonds
The defense threatens either to take 2 diamond ruffs plus a spade and a trump or to force dummy in spades and take at least 2 spades and two tricks in trumps
Of course you can play West to have ♥Qx of trumps in which case you can draw trumps and enjoy the diamonds.
But this is only an 8% chance and will not work when East has ♥Qx of trumps.

I can see chances making the contract if hearts split.
Win in hand, take the club finesse and at trick 3 play a top trump from dummy and then the small trump.
If East does not go in with the queen, assume he does not have it and put in the trump 8 from hand and hope this will force the queen from West. (If West has ♥QTx they can beat this line).
If The defense now forces dummy by playing 2 rounds of spades, ruff in dummy, ruff a club and draw the trumps with the heart jack, at the same time discarding your last club loser.
This wins whenever trumps are 3-3 unless West has ♥ QTx or the ♥Q side is able to give his partner a diamond ruff and the one who ruffs, returns a spade to his partner to lead a third round of trumps.

Chances are not very bright to succeed against best defense (even assuming no East would find to duck with ♥Qxx), but I think chances are better than above and the defense could go wrong.

Rainer Herrmann

[The_Badger]

manudude03, on 2016-September-01, 21:28, said:

When asked to name it, I just call it a strong club system, though my partner calls it "a one club with a one diamond response" whatever that means. I posted the basics of it on BBF a while back and needless to say, they went to town with it. But anyway, you can complain about the contract and the bidding until you are blue in the face, but you still need to come up with a line at the table!

Your absolutely right! 15 hours later, let alone 15 minutes later, I still haven't come up with a winning line. It's such a hard hand to keep control of - so easy to lose four tricks. It's one of those hands a top world class player will fill in like a jigsaw puzzle, trick by trick.

[rhm]

[deleted

[manudude03]

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The contract should have been down 2. I decided not to test my legitimate chances figuring making the contract wouldn't do any good if the field are in 3NT making 10 tricks, so I played for everything to be wrong hoping for a layout where 3NT doesn't make. but something funny happened. I led a second and third round of diamonds towards my hand and East didn't ruff either of them, so I ended up with 3 diamond tricks, 1 club, 3 spade ruffs and managed to score 3 trumps in my own hand to make it.

[Kaitlyn S]

manudude03, on 2016-September-01, 11:45, said:

MPs scoring, weak field.

By "weak field" I presume you mean weak players

manudude03, on 2016-September-03, 18:04, said:

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...so I played for everything to be wrong hoping for a layout where 3NT doesn't make...

Why would you expect weak players to reach 3NT with a singleton in each hand? The only way a weak pair might get to 3NT that I can think of is 1D-1S-3NT or maybe 1D-1S-2NT-3NT.

If you expect the field to bid 1D-1H-3C-3D-3H-3NT or 1D-1H-3C-3NT or 1D-1H-2C-2D-2H (or 3H)-3NT then your idea of a weak field is a heck of a lot better than mine. Personally I would expect most of the field, if it's truly weak, to be in 5D, drawing 3 rounds of trump as soon as they get the chance. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if the auction started 1D-1H-3D at a lot of tables (of course some will start 1D-2D.)

So if they're in 5D pulling a lot of trumps, they have 9 tricks plus whatever the defense gives them.

[manudude03]

Most of the weaker players here seem to think 1D-1H-3C can just be a random 16 count, not knowing the difference between a reverse and a jump shift. I was thinking something like 1D-2D-3NT or 1D-1H-3C-3NT. Maybe my idea of weak is stronger than yours, but in BBO standards, they would be beginners or low intermediates. I would expect to win in this field without trying too much.

Here in Northern Ireland, we have Grades which are indicators of your perceived ability separate from Masterpoints (though in most cases the grades are based on masterpoints), these are (in ascending order) Novice, Intermediate B, Intermediate A, Senior (also called non-expert), Expert. In this field, I would be the only "Expert" player, and my partner would have been the only "Senior". Everyone else would have been a mix of Novice and Intermediate B players.

[alok c]

That's why i wrote it can be played if West has♣K & East has 2-4-1-6 distribution with ♥Q.
1. Take ♦
2. Play ♦-East does'nt ruff
3. play ♦-East does'nt ruff
4. play ♠-West takes
5. West plays ♠-ruff in dummy
6&7.Cash ♥AK
8. Continue ♦ & let East takes his 2♥tricks.
OR
2. East ruffs
3. East returns ♠-West takes
4. West returns ♠-ruff in dummy
5&6.Cash ♥AK & continue as above, East will take his ♥Q
OR
4.West returns♦ -East ruffs
5.East returns ♠ -ruff in dummy
6&7.Cash ♥ AK & continue

[The_Badger]

manudude03, on 2016-September-03, 18:04, said:

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The contract should have been down 2. I decided not to test my legitimate chances figuring making the contract wouldn't do any good if the field are in 3NT making 10 tricks, so I played for everything to be wrong hoping for a layout where 3NT doesn't make. but something funny happened. I led a second and third round of diamonds towards my hand and East didn't ruff either of them, so I ended up with 3 diamond tricks, 1 club, 3 spade ruffs and managed to score 3 trumps in my own hand to make it.

Thanks for posting the whole hand. I'll put that down as the luck of the Irish (against weak opposition) lol!

[Kaitlyn S]

manudude03, on 2016-September-03, 21:24, said:

Most of the weaker players here seem to think 1D-1H-3C can just be a random 16 count, not knowing the difference between a reverse and a jump shift.

Your players know what a reverse is? Your field isn't that weak then

I love this discussion only because on another thread someone told me I should go out and play some live bridge to improve my game. And those auctions I was talking about? Beginner to low intermediate? From my limited experience you lead a charmed life on BBO if the advanced players and experts (and even a couple of World Class players) wouldn't have exactly these auctions. I have seen such atrocities committed routinely by experts in the Competitive Team Matches on this site. I've played several matches in the last couple of days and the "beginning to low intermediate" bidding has been present at my table in all but two of them. What's amazing to me is that I had a match where one seat was a revolving door of experts (I think 4 different advanced/experts in an 8 board match) and he every one of them made bidding errors that were covered in an Introduction to Bridge CD that a friend had.