[pclayton]

Here's a hand Justin and I were kibbing last night (it may not be perfect, but it fits the theme) that raised an interesting discussion.

---

RHO opens 1♦, you overcall 1♠, LHO doubles, pard cues 2♦ - ostensibly a limit raise + here, but not knowing this pair's agreements, assume it could be a generic forcing hand with or without a fit.

RHO passes - you call?

[inquiry]

I bid 2H. But over this negative double, you should play transfer advances, with 2D showing hearts, 2C showing diamomnds, Rdbl showing clubs, 2H showing "sound raise to 2S", and 2S competitive raise. In addition, you would save 2NT here as good constructive to limit plus raise to 4S.

Ben

[joker_gib]

2♥ too !

Most economic bid to show opening strength and something in ♥

Alain

[whereagles]

I see a lot of things that can go wrong with 2H and I don't see anything wrong with 2S bid. So I bid the later.

[HeartA]

2♠ is NOT acceptable. pd's 2♦ is inviting game and I have upper-middle range for my 1♠ overcall. Besides 2♥, 3♣ is another option. The danger to bid 2♥ is when pd had 2 or 3 ♠s and 4♥s and raised to 4♥ (with or without ♦ stopper). Though I think pd should not bid 4♥ with 3♠s support, it could happen. Other than that, 2♥ is a good bid. If you are sure pd's 2♦ shows ♠ support, than 2♥ is safe anyway, the danger of bidding 2♥ is almost ignorable.

If you think that pd's 2♦ is just forcing, and not sure of ♠ support, and afraid pd raises ♥, then 3♣ is the second option. If pd raises to 4♣ (no ♦ stopper), try 4♥ (as if you hold 5-3-1-4). If pd bid 3♥ (5-card), raise to 4♥. If pd bid 3NT, pass (of course).

[whereagles]

2S not acceptable?? Well then SUE ME

[daswallow]

I bid 3♠, showing a decent overcall (opening values) but not a great overcall. This seems to fit with what we actually have.

[pbleighton]

"I bid 3♠, showing a decent overcall (opening values) but not a great overcall. This seems to fit with what we actually have."

Agree.

Peter

[olegru]

pclayton, on Apr 12 2005, 10:03 AM, said:

RHO opens 1♦, you overcall 1♠, LHO doubles, pard cues 2♦ - ostensibly a limit raise + here, but not knowing this pair's agreements, assume it could be a generic forcing hand with or without a fit.

RHO passes - you call?

3♦
I accept my partner invitation, and do not mind him to bid 3NT with something like:
♠ Kxx
♥ xxxx
♦ Kxx
♣ Axx

3♦ is not too strong, because I didn't dbl on the first round.

[mike777]

olegru, on Apr 12 2005, 12:26 PM, said:

pclayton, on Apr 12 2005, 10:03 AM, said:

RHO opens 1♦, you overcall 1♠, LHO doubles, pard cues 2♦ - ostensibly a limit raise + here, but not knowing this pair's agreements, assume it could be a generic forcing hand with or without a fit.

RHO passes - you call?

3♦
I accept my partner invitation, and do not mind him to bid 3NT with something like:
♠ Kxx
♥ xxxx
♦ Kxx
♣ Axx

3♦ is not too strong, because I didn't dbl on the first round.

3D (not game forcing I hope)

Will pass 3S by partner.

Hope P has better hand than the one above. Is that a standard limit raise for an overcall of 1s now?

Must admit If I bid 2d and now overcaller bids 3s would expect that to be 100% game forcing showing much more than this hand.

Love the 2H bid option here but would only do that after discussion, not with a pick up partner.

[pclayton]

I brought up this hand because continuations after a cue bid are awkward to say the least.

Many sequences have been drummed into our brains. For instance if this hand opens in 3rd chair with this collection, and pard bids 2C - reverse drury, this hand has an automatic 2D call to show a full opener, but not the kind of hand to barge directly into 4S on. If pard had a limit raise with only 3 trump, a signoff is warranted or perhaps some kind of game try.

After an overcall, things are more complicated, but they need not be.

Most of the posters are suggesting a return cue bid or a 2H punt, which is fine, but pard will usually expect length.

I am weaning my pard onto transfer advances, and I think a similar 'drury' type structure can apply. For instance - the actual auction (1D) - 1S - (dbl) - 2C can be the 3 card limit raise or better. An 'acceptance' by opener of 2D (accepting the cue bid) can be the same as a Drury acceptance and a return to 2S can show our usual miserable overcall.

[flytoox]

2S is definitely wrong. It only shows a min overcall hand. But this hand is Too good for 2S.

3S is wrong in distorting the shape.

Choices are among 2H and 3D. 2H is more economic and is my choice. I think 3D is acceptable.

[luke warm]

i could have this wrong, memory might be faulty, but it seems like i remember someone somewhere using 2h by advancer as a game force in another suit, or maybe nt, and 2d as limit+ for partner's suit (hearts being a cue if x was negative)

anyway, i like the 3d bid over 2d

[the hog]

I agree with Whereagles - 2S. This is a fairly average hand - only 5S, unsupported honours in H and C, the latter of which looks to be lying badly. I think the 2H bidders are a little optimistic here. Mind you I will bid game if partner kicks again.

[jdulmage]

I'm going to agree on a 3♦ call, I need to know what partner has, we may be better off playing in 3NT than in 4♠, of course, he will know I have a balanced (probably balanced) 13-14 points. So whatever he bids next, except another suit, we are staying here.

3♠ = sorry, don't have a diamond stopper and it's clear we will not make game, even on our 23-24 points.

3♥ = don't have a diamond stopper, but does a heart control help you out any?

3NT = got that stopper for you - it's up to you partner!

4♠ = hell, I don't care what you got, I know we have this game cold

[whereagles]

The_Hog, on Apr 12 2005, 11:24 PM, said:

I agree with Whereagles - 2S.

*hog agrees with me?*
*shock*
*faint*

[P_Marlowe]

2S.

Playing it safe, denying a Diamond Stopper.
If the cue bid is undiscussed, partner knows,
this.
Partner will tell me with his next bid, what he
meant with the cue bid.

We may miss game, but most likely,
we will avoid a misunderstanding.
Bidding 3D is asking for trouble.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: Even if playing the Cue as limit+ raise, in case
responder has minimal values, I would bid 2S.
If partner is strong he will bid again, if he happens
to have only his inv. raise, chances for making 4S
are slim.

[helene_t]

After the double, advancer is not so likely to be strong without a fit. In one partnership I play redouble to show clubs plus some spades tollerance ("Snapdragon-rdbl"). This means that we can't play Rosenkrantz. But at least 2♦ shows unambigously spades support.

[flytoox]

whereagles, on Apr 13 2005, 08:27 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Apr 12 2005, 11:24 PM, said:

I agree with Whereagles - 2S.

*hog agrees with me?*
*shock*
*faint*

Something must be wrong,