[Kaitlyn S]

Playing negative doubles, if the auction goes 1D 1S P P the opener is expected to reopen, and responder can safely psss over the overcall with a hand such as AQJ9x, Axx, xx, KJx expecting a huge penalty unless opener reopens with something other than double.

What is the lowest overcall where responder doesn't have that option anymore (i.e. the auction can go P P P after the overcall)?


EDIT to add: Is the proper place for this question or should I have put it in Expert Bridge because I'm looking for expert opinions? Or perhaps Natural Bidding Discussion?

[manudude03]

There shouldn't ever be a situation where it is mandatory to call in the passout position. In your example auction, I would leave it in with AQx xxxx AQxx xx for example. As for what the limit should be for opener not to make a reopening double even with shortage, I would put it at the three-level, and possibly 2-higher if you have a tentative penalty holding like AQx xxx Qx AQxxx where 2S might not go down that much (though you expect it to go down far more often than it makes), but there is room for partner to have 3442 distribution etc.

TL;DR version though is just take every hand as it comes and don't think about absolute barriers too much.

[Kaitlyn S]

manudude03, on 2016-August-20, 19:59, said:

There shouldn't ever be a situation where it is mandatory to call in the passout position. In your example auction, I would leave it in with AQx xxxx AQxx xx for example.

Agreed. I should have said "mandatory with shortness." If the overcall is a psyche, I can see the opening side getting a terrible result because the responder passes a great hand and the opener passes with spade length.

[rmnka447]

Opener is not expected to reopen with a double whenever it is unlikely that responder has a stack in the overcall suit, or, opener has a hand where making a bid describing his hand is more important. Typically, if opener bids a new suit, it's something very distributional like 5-5 in the suits bid. If opener rebids the original suit, it's at least a 6+ card and often longer.

Another time that opener might not double is being void in the overcall suit. That's because with a stack, it's often important to get a trump lead through the declarer so the player with the stack doesn't get end played in the trump suit.

Also, there's always a few hands that come up where the opening envelope was pushed pretty far and having a reopening double passed might be an embarrassment. Those also can be passed.

[spotlight7]

Hands with likely wasted values should be warning flags.


AK KQ QJ and to a lesser extent Qx or Jx in the overcalled suit suggest caution.


Adding a card or even two cards to those holdings strongly suggest catution.



Hands that partner will wince when dummy is displayed should be considered very carefully before making a TO X.


xx xx KQxxx AKxx will often not be the dummy that partner dreams about unless they are having a nightmare.



The higher the level of the overcall, more shape/values are needed to act.


1m-(4S)-p-p-? You need a real rock crusher to X here.

[P_Marlowe]

Opener reopens to protect partner, if he trap passed,
hence if you know, that partner can not have the trap pass,
you can pass it out.

#1 partner is a passed hand,and the chances are high, and
you have a (sub) min opening, i.e. chances are high, that
they have the majority
#2 If you have honors in their suit + shortage, assumes that
they dont overcall with xxxxx, but you cannot always get them.

It also helps, that partner should not hold a monster hand, i.e.
possible trap passes are limited in strength.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[kenberg]

Kaitlyn S, on 2016-August-20, 19:26, said:

Playing negative doubles, if the auction goes 1D 1S P P the opener is expected to reopen, and responder can safely psss over the overcall with a hand such as AQJ9x, Axx, xx, KJx expecting a huge penalty unless opener reopens with something other than double.

What is the lowest overcall where responder doesn't have that option anymore (i.e. the auction can go P P P after the overcall)?


EDIT to add: Is the proper place for this question or should I have put it in Expert Bridge because I'm looking for expert opinions? Or perhaps Natural Bidding Discussion?

I/A is a fine place for this, except that being that is at I/A you will be getting the views of people like me rather than exclusively experts. But that's also the case on the expert forum.

I don't much worry about partner having AQJ9x, Axx, xx, KJx, I can't recall the last time he had such a hand. Not only can we demolish 1SX, the KJx of clubs makes it unlikely that they can easily run to clubs.

I don't have any set rule. I consider the form of scoring and I consider the possibility that a re-open might let them run from a contract that we can set to one that we cannot. I consider whether I can handle what partner is likely to do. After 1D-(1S0-P-(P), I figure that usually partner either will not have four hearts or he will have little in values. True, he might have a spade stack. But if so, they might run. Like most people, I often re-open. But less often than I used to. Once bitten, twice shy.

[ggwhiz]

All good points above.

The most common to me is having 3 cards in the overcalled suit (Mike Lawrence calls it the death holding) and any flatish hand. As often as not they are simply in the wrong spot with my rho having shortness with either values and/or strong defensive potential against anything we might bid.

If I'm not strong enough to bid 1nt passing works most of the time and doubling almost never.