[Jinksy]

8xxxxx
Kxx
Axx
x

Unfavourable, playing Rubber bridge(!), basic system is 2/1 gameforcing. You're first in, and resisting the devil on your shoulder, pass it to P. He opens 1 heart, which comes back to you. Your call?

I remember being surprised relatively recently that on a similar hand with five (somewhat better) spades, virtually all the stronger player advocated bidding 2♥ - even playing a Kaplan inversion that would let you show them all with one call.

Here I raised hearts, and my partner (a vastly stronger player than me) said 'you've just got too many spades not to bid them'. (we weren't playing Kaplan inversion)

Do you agree? The principle seems unchanged - after 1♥ 1♠ / 2x, 2♥ is now going to substantially undersell my hand - but is the risk of losing a 6-4 spade fit (or 6-3 if partner sees fit to raise on three cards) now a bigger factor?

[wank]

i'd raise hearts, albeit i'd go through drury (before anyone comments, from what i've seen americans play drury stronger than i and other british players do. for me it's normally a good 8+, but this has a singleton)

if you don't show 3 hearts now, you can't do so without going to the 3 level which is obviously to be avoided if possible. considering you have a club shortage, it's even more important to show the fit.

[helene_t]

Yes this is a hearts raise. It is unlikely that p can raise spades.

The general reason for raising hearts directly is that a raise shows our strength. If we start with 1♠ we have to choose between and underbid of 2♥ and an overbid of 3♥ next time.

This hand is frequently used as a case for why you should be playing 5-card majors.

The fact that our rubish spades will make partner to reevaluate wrongly if we bid them is another reason.

And a third reason is that we want to establish our fit before opps establish theirs. 2♥ might obstruct a 2♦ or 2♣ overcall.

[phoenix214]

I am definetly raising hearts, how do I raise depends on style, but with this strength, the main feature of my hand is the heart fit, and I have an one bid hand.

[Phil]

Id raise hearts but this is on the verge of being a Drury call.

[Winstonm]

The purpose of bidding suit is to find an 8-card or better fit and express strength. Here, both can be accomplished in a single bid so it is a simple 2H bid.

[eagles123]

i agree its a choice between 2h and drury, wouldn't be surprised to learn that p was like 4522 or something and spades played better and its just resulting nonsense the comment by your partner

[Jinksy]

On the hand, we would have ended in 2♥ regardless of my call, so he certainly wasn't resulting.

[jogs]

I voted 1♠. Was surprised the vote was 5 for 1♠ and only 4 for 2♥. You guys must have intimated the other 1♠ callers from posting. 1♠ does not deny 3 hearts. After supporting hearts on the next round, it does suggest two more spades than hearts.

[shyams]

jogs, on 2016-July-30, 13:30, said:

I voted 1♠. Was surprised the vote was 5 for 1♠ and only 4 for 2♥. You guys must have intimated the other 1♠ callers from posting. 1♠ does not deny 3 hearts. After supporting hearts on the next round, it does suggest two more spades than hearts.

Could it convey 4 card ♠ and 2 card ♥?

BBF has helped be become a convert for the 2♥ raise (I'm referring to past threads). As mentioned by other posters, the logic for an immediate heart raise is sound. In my personal experience, it has worked in the past.

[MrAce]

2♥

[johnu]

shyams, on 2016-July-30, 14:23, said:

Could it convey 4 card ♠ and 2 card ♥?

BBF has helped be become a convert for the 2♥ raise (I'm referring to past threads). As mentioned by other posters, the logic for an immediate heart raise is sound. In my personal experience, it has worked in the past.

It depends on the auction.

1♥ 1♠
1NT 2♥

I would expect 3 hearts on this specific auction


Simple preference auction like

1♥ 1♠
2♦ 2♥

can be made on a doubleton (or maybe even a singleton on some infrequent hands)

[johnu]

Winstonm, on 2016-July-30, 10:03, said:

The purpose of bidding suit is to find an 8-card or better fit and express strength. Here, both can be accomplished in a single bid so it is a simple 2H bid.

I'm not sure what OP's implications are for playing 2/1 in a rubber bridge game, but many, if not most of the 2/1 players I know can open a 4 card major in 3rd seat. You aren't certain to have an 8 card fit.

[mike777]

2h seems perfect esp. if you were playing constructive raises. This is close to a 3 card limit raise but 2h seems fine.

[Jinksy]

johnu, on 2016-July-30, 15:48, said:

I'm not sure what OP's implications are for playing 2/1 in a rubber bridge game, but many, if not most of the 2/1 players I know can open a 4 card major in 3rd seat. You aren't certain to have an 8 card fit.

Yeah, that's why I wondered if people would act differently as an unpassed hand.

[ETA] I guess the argument here is that normally when you open on a 4 card suit it's for a weak hand seeking the lead, and planning to pass any non-forcing bid from P (or conceivably rebid 1N). On those hands the Moyesian should still play adequately, whereas on the hands where P is strongish, and consequently has 5+ hearts, raising his suit is more likely to get us to game.

[The_Badger]

hi Sasha (jinksy)

Playing rubber bridge at red there's a case for both 2♥ or 1♠. Drury at red in rubber bridge - not in my name Though I'm more inclined to bid 2♥ though.

There hasn't been a peep from the opponents yet, but 1♠ gives them more chance to intervene, than raising to 2♥ immediately.

If partner turns up with a flannery type hand 45(22) or similar and is minimum(ish), the last thing you want is for your partnership to be making decisions at the 5 level if the opponents get their act together. If you have the majors, and they have the minors, there's not a lot of defensive tricks around.

+60 and vulnerable at rubber is a very nice score

[msjennifer]

I have answered 2 H.This hand although it has 8 losers as played in Hearts is not worth bidding Drury as partner will be expecting a slightly better hand.Opponents are surely going to lead trumps at every opportunity.I know nothing about partners hand which may be a weakish one.If the pair plays SST and LST then bidding will not pose a problem.If partner does show a singleton ( 3D shows that and a six loser hand) then it means he wants 3 cover cards in the remaining suits so sign off in 3 H.Lastly, who knows,partner may have four cards in spades with a 6 loser hand and will show them over 2H and then 4S will be easily reached.If the pair is using Flannery then 2D-P- 4S is too easy or even six in some cases.But I have presumed they don't play Flannery.

[miamijd]

This hand is too good for 2H. You can take your pick between 2C Reverse Drury or a passed-hand "fit jump" bid of 2S.

Drury will keep you low when partner has a minimum (if he responds 2D, invitational, you probably should sign off at 2H). The fit jump will get you to some thin, making games that Drury won't, but you'll be stuck in 3H on some hands that might only make 8 tricks.

Cheers.
Mike