[oryctolagi]

I'm baffled. Perhaps I just don't know enough. This was in the BBO Acol club and I thought my partner was reversing:

---

Anyway, liking partner's (presumed) diamonds and (presumed) lots of points, a lot, I thought "slam" but eventually landed us in 5♦.

After the fiasco (3 down), I was about to ask partner what 2♦ was all about, but he/she scarpered before I got a chance.

Perhaps it's me. Not the first time something like this has happened. Perhaps I'm not up to this game, and others are taking it out on me... Should I quit?

[StevenG]

 oryctolagi, on 2016-March-18, 08:45, said:

I'm baffled. Perhaps I just don't know enough. This was in the BBO Acol club and I thought my partner was reversing:

---

Anyway, liking partner's (presumed) diamonds and (presumed) lots of points, a lot, I thought "slam" but eventually landed us in 5♦.

After the fiasco (3 down), I was about to ask partner what 2♦ was all about, but he/she scarpered before I got a chance.

Perhaps it's me. Not the first time something like this has happened. Perhaps I'm not up to this game, and others are taking it out on me... Should I quit?

Partner was fabricating a forcing bid. It's difficult to rebid clubs in Acol with a hand like his as 3♣ is non-forcing and 4♣ uses up too much space (and takes you past 3NT). Be careful with replying to forcing bids as they may show less of a suit than you might think (especially in the minors, as here) assuming your partner is reasonably imaginative.

[1eyedjack]

3C would have been fine. Not strong enough to do more. Also it is very dangerous to fabricate an ostensibly natural new suit that is higher ranking than your intended trump strain.

[WesleyC]

2♦ looks reasonable to me.

[oryctolagi]

 WesleyC, on 2016-March-18, 09:39, said:

2♦ looks reasonable to me.

Maybe to you. Bear in mind we were in the Acol club, and I have Acol very firmly stated on my card. We had made no agreement to play otherwise. And in Acol, unless I'm very much astray, a reverse is a reverse, a natural bid showing a strong hand and two suits. Where are the two suits in this hand????

[mycroft]

I'd want to see the entire auction. One of Jeff Goldsmith's Imperious Rules:

Quote

If you reverse into a 3-card (or shorter) suit, rebid your original suit as soon as possible or partner will assume you have four in the second suit.

I agree with most - it's hard to make a GF 1-minor suit rebid in Acol (or anything else for that matter). IIRC, the other "traditional Acol" way of showing this hand is 1♣-1♦; 3NT (showing a long (semi-)solid club suit and not enough stoppers for an initial 3NT). He may not know that - he may believe that *you* do not know that. But if after 3♦ he bid 4♣ and after 4♦ he bid 5♣, you should start to suspect. After 1♣-1♥; 2♦-3♦; 3NT-4♦; 5♣ I can see it being more difficult to "get".

OTOH, do we need to fake a reverse with this 16-count? If partner passes 3♣, are we going to be upset? Well, it's arguable - but probably, yeah. We're going to have to be off 5 tops or we only get 7-and-the-stopper. I don't say 3NT is a lock, but there are certainly a number of hands that will pass 3♣ where it rolls.

OTGH, reversing into a 3 card suit with a pickup is almost certainly an "even if it's 100% clearly their fault for not getting it, it's your fault for bidding it" situation. Were I North, I would have apologized, "Sorry, partner, I thought I could keep control of the auction."

[rmnka447]

Occasionally, hands come up where reversing into a 3 card suit is the only way to show the strength of a hand. It probably comes up more after a minor opener because of the additional requirements to opening a 2 ♣ strong hand opening with a minor. There are hands where you're just too strong for a jump rebid in the minor but not strong enough for opening 2 ♣. So, the logical thing to do is reverse and rebid your opening suit. Sometimes, you only have a 3 card suit with which to do this. Hence, the "hasty ♦" reverse bid here. Because of this 3 card reverse possibility, it's one of the reasons there's a strong prohibition to jumping directly to game in the reversing suit with just 4 card support.

I agree with seeing your a good possibility of slam with your hand. But more information needs to be exchanged to determine if slam is there. Since partner has started telling you about their hand, a good plan is to make a positive response and let partner complete his story. So, a simple 3 ♦ raise is sufficient at this point. It shows values and 4 card support. If partner's next rebid meshes well with your hand, you can start pushing towards slam. If not, you still have enough to move toward game.


BTW, I'd be much more likely to rebid 3 ♣ or 3 NT (if it's recognized as a gambling 3 NT based on a long runnable suit) with opener's hand. While a good hand, it seems a little shy of a reverse to me.

[oryctolagi]

As it turned out, the clubs broke 3-1 on this deal, so 3NT was cold. I suppose that's what annoyed me - as it would anyone! I could kick myself for not having gone straight there (I put in Blackwood 4NT - probably a silly move - and passed the 5♦ response).

But my main cause for being perturbed was that my partner quit the table without a word. I was thinking, was he trying to cover his embarrassment? Or castigating me for mis-bidding the hand? Of course it could have been a totally innocent reason.

Anyway, thanks for the replies. I'll try to remember - not all bids are what they seem....

[1eyedjack]

I think it is quite a difficult hand not to get too high. As is generally the case when 5m makes but 4N does not.

[Tramticket]

I think I would bid this 1C, 1D, 3NT.

Note that the modern approach is that a 1NT rebid shows 15-17, a 2NT rebid 18-19. This leaves a 3NT bid to show a long running suit.

With only one ace, south probably does best to pass this.

[gszes]

 oryctolagi, on 2016-March-19, 02:56, said:

As it turned out, the clubs broke 3-1 on this deal, so 3NT was cold. I suppose that's what annoyed me - as it would anyone! I could kick myself for not having gone straight there (I put in Blackwood 4NT - probably a silly move - and passed the 5♦ response).

But my main cause for being perturbed was that my partner quit the table without a word. I was thinking, was he trying to cover his embarrassment? Or castigating me for mis-bidding the hand? Of course it could have been a totally innocent reason.

Anyway, thanks for the replies. I'll try to remember - not all bids are what they seem....

Try to develop a thick skin especially online where anonymity seems to bring out the worst in people (ever watch people drive cars?). Over 2d how about setting up a GF with 2s? Who knows what you will find out (opener has 3 hearts for ex and a single spade). You are not far off base thinking about slam with your hand so do not beat yourself up when you make reasonable moves but your partner has let you down. Relax and try enjoy.

[zillahandp]

I agree with the 2d bid, 3c is a travesty, 5losers so hand is of reverse strength but p is stuck for a forcing bid, in my view he chose the l ast lie cos it his his job to recover, i would now bid 3d on your hand and i guess p will then bid 5cs note 3d shows slam my nterest cos you are now in. Gf sit. Well done your p who he/she?

[johnu]

 oryctolagi, on 2016-March-18, 08:45, said:

Perhaps it's me. Not the first time something like this has happened. Perhaps I'm not up to this game, and others are taking it out on me... Should I quit?

You would have to post the rest of the auction and the play to get a better idea about who is mostly at fault, but you should be aware that opener may not have 4 diamonds. Since this was played on BBO with a random, there's one golden rule. Assume partner doesn't know what they are doing and don't waste time getting upset about your results.

[oryctolagi]

 zillahandp, on 2016-March-19, 13:44, said:

I agree with the 2d bid, 3c is a travesty, 5losers so hand is of reverse strength but p is stuck for a forcing bid, in my view he chose the l ast lie cos it his his job to recover, i would now bid 3d on your hand and i guess p will then bid 5cs note 3d shows slam my nterest cos you are now in. Gf sit. Well done your p who he/she?

Sorry, what's that in English please?

[blackshoe]

 oryctolagi, on 2016-March-19, 02:56, said:

But my main cause for being perturbed was that my partner quit the table without a word. I was thinking, was he trying to cover his embarrassment? Or castigating me for mis-bidding the hand? Of course it could have been a totally innocent reason.

This kind of rudeness is quite common in online bridge. Just ignore it.

[daffydoc]

well is this much different from what partner did to me today in National Fast Pair event? With no interference from opp 1S 1nt
3H 4C
4S 5H
5NT(pick a slam) 6H
P P

was akqjxx KQJ Kx xx opp xxx AT9x xx AQxx made 6H as hearts 42 on a diam lead. but how did Pard not respect the fact that I bid 4S over 4C - slam should be 6S or 6NT but luckily hearts were not 5-1 daffydoc

[barmar]

It looks like your partner thought that everything after 3♥ was cue bids in support of hearts, to 4♠ didn't show extra length in spades.

[zillahandp]

Orycto for you especially "least lie" and slammy not a word for everyone do you study English?

[nekthen]

 zillahandp, on 2016-March-19, 13:44, said:

I agree with the 2d bid, 3c is a travesty, 5losers so hand is of reverse strength but p is stuck for a forcing bid, in my view he chose the l ast lie cos it his his job to recover, i would now bid 3d on your hand and i guess p will then bid 5cs note 3d shows slam my nterest cos you are now in. Gf sit. Well done your p who he/she?

Really? 5 losers 7 clubs what else do you need to bid 3♣? I agree with the gambling 3N in which case 3♣ shows similar values but a non running club suit.

I know there is a tendency to rebid 3 with any old opening hand with a 6 card suit, but in acol at least you can rebid 2 and p will be expecting 6 cards anyway

[eagles123]

 oryctolagi, on 2016-March-18, 10:24, said:

Maybe to you. Bear in mind we were in the Acol club, and I have Acol very firmly stated on my card. We had made no agreement to play otherwise. And in Acol, unless I'm very much astray, a reverse is a reverse, a natural bid showing a strong hand and two suits. Where are the two suits in this hand????

I understand your frustration with rude online players, but the fact you play Acol is totally irrelevant here. There are some hands where you have no choice but to reverse into a three card suit regardless of what system you play - (whether this is the right hand to do it on is debateable)