[eagles123]

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now the wheels fell off because I didn't cue my spade and we missed slam. I thought when I've already shown a GF hand i should have 1st round control to cue but I'm not sure

advice welcome

Thanks

Eagles

[apollo1201]

Hi Eagles.

Hiding controls is rarely a good idea, especially when you are not ashamed of your hand (an undisclosed C with AK will make 0 trump loser most of the time, and the ♥ headed by AK will be easier to establish).

Partner cooperated after (I imagine) showing a hand interested in slam setting trumps low (I am not sure what the 2♦ bid means, though).

We all started cue-bidding (could he have shown a ♥shortness? I usually prefer to not cue in 1st stage a shortness in partner's suit, but could cue a Q), so I really don't see why you should stop now. Unless you take control and ask keycards and trump Q directly of course.

[eagles123]

2d is all but forced

[mgoetze]

In principle I believe you should not be obligated to cuebid 4♠ - this has nothing to do with it being only a second round control though, if you play mixed cuebids at the 4-level (as almost everyone does nowadays) you should do it throughout and not try to think of exceptions. The important question is inhowfar partner has shown slam interest with 4♣, i.e. which hands would he bid 5♣ on instead. If 4♣ shows slam interest, your hand is quite suitable and you should keep cuebidding. On the other hand, if 4♣ could be "I'm just keeping the bidding low out of courtesy" (or, worse yet, nonforcing), well you are somewhat minimal for your 2♣ opening and you have probably done quite enough by cuebidding 4♦.

I like to play that 4♣ does show some extras (say 6+ and not just queens and jacks) so I would cuebid 4♠ here.

[gszeszycki]

Most cue bids are done for one main reason: someone wants to explore slam and they do not have enough information to take over the bidding. Most cue bids are merely controls (including singletons) that show at least 2nd round control of the suit bid. Early cue bids are designed to make sure slam is not hopeless before getting beyond game and then proceeding to explore further after the 5 level seems safe (unless someone can take control sooner). Grand slams can be bid via cue bids if enough information needs to be exchanged.

With your given hand I would cue bid 4s since You still need extras from partner in order to bid 6. As best I can tell your p did nothing more than have a preference for clubs and maybe a smattering of hcp. The 4h cue bid is not normal in the sense that most partnerships do not consider shortnes nor the Q a cue biddable feature. So you are at best at a guess as to which type of feature partner is trying to show. The size of the trump support is also a factor over which you have no idea. Your 4s merely keeps the bidding alive while letting your partner know you cannot comfortably take over slam bidding despite knowing all the suits are controlled.

Cue bidding 2nd round controls is not perfect since it is feasible for a partnership to cue bid 3 kings and get too high at the 5 level but it happens rarely. this is a huge subject overall but just keeping the above in mind will help you make many sound decisions.

[Jinksy]

A simple principle I like to stick to in these situations where no-one's really had a chance to show or deny extras is that we cue what we've got, then sign off at game if we've got nothing substantially more. IMO P should have something for 4♣ (again, fast arrival + KISS), but he's not promising the Earth when the alternative would have eaten so much space.

So I would just cue, and respect P's 5♣ signoff.

What was the other hand?

[fromageGB]

One consideration already mentioned is south's cue of 4♥. What is this supposed to mean? If shortage, then this does not help your cause and that deterrent may be enough to dampen enthusiasm. If the Q, then it's great news so bid spades. My agreement is that a cue is any A,K, singleton or void but not partner's suit for the the last two, and in that suit the A,K and Q are cues. Makes life simple. If uncertain, I think you need to cue spades.

[Jinksy]

I wouldn't normally cue shortage in P's suit, but if we have a 10-card trump fit or better I would - then the shortage can turn back into a potential asset. So here I'd hope P either either had 5+Cs (ideally 6+, since we've probably only shown 4), or was getting creative with the Q♥.