[Jinksy]

Game all, teams.

♠ QJT
♥ 65
♦ AT4
♣ KQJ54

P opens 2N showing 5-5♠s and ♥s/♣s, playing strength about 10-13 total points (ie after including upgrades for shape). Your plausible options are

3♥ - asking P to bid 3♠ if his second suit is hearts, planning to pass it
3♠ - to play
4♠ - to play

(maybe this should be in non-natural system discussion, but it's just a judgement question, whereas most posts in there seem to be about system)

[Jinksy]

ETA don't agree with anything I just wrote

[kenrexford]

I'll bite.

I cannot believe that my only options are what you say. What is 3D?

I am thinking about 3NT, as an aside.

[PhantomSac]

Id just bid game

[Jinksy]

kenrexford, on 2015-October-27, 18:03, said:

I'll bite.

I cannot believe that my only options are what you say. What is 3D?

I am thinking about 3NT, as an aside.

3♣ is pass or bid 3♦.
3♦ asks about P's Hs (usually on the assumption that you have long Hs and hope to find tolerance opposite) - 3♥ then shows tolerance, 3♠ shows singleton or void, and 3N shows a 5-card suit.
3NT is a slam try in whichever is opener's second suit, so probably not the right bid here

[kenrexford]

Jinksy, on 2015-October-28, 09:25, said:

3♣ is pass or bid 3♦.
3♦ asks about P's Hs (usually on the assumption that you have long Hs and hope to find tolerance opposite) - 3♥ then shows tolerance, 3♠ shows singleton or void, and 3N shows a 5-card suit.
3NT is a slam try in whichever is opener's second suit, so probably not the right bid here

Well, then, it seems like 3♦ is an option.

If partner bids 3NT, I can pass.

If partner bids 3♥ or 3♠, he has clubs, and I can bid 4♠.

[gszes]

you are playing a system where there is a 30% difference btn top and bottom and the system leaves you little/no room to invite and/or discover the other suit. Just go for the game and sound confident since there is practically no rational way to proceed and the vul game bonus is pretty large. your hood spade holding will keep doubles to a minimum taking away a lot of the risk associated with 4s.

[Jinksy]

kenrexford, on 2015-October-28, 15:00, said:

Well, then, it seems like 3♦ is an option.

If partner bids 3NT, I can pass.

If partner bids 3♥ or 3♠, he has clubs, and I can bid 4♠.

I can't see any gain for bidding this way vs bidding 3♥. It just gives opps that little bit of extra info about P's hand, and potentially means he's playing it, having revealed so much.

I surely don't want to be in 3N, anyway. Opps are very likely to find the diamond lead, so we're going to need 9 tricks off the top, and with as much as AKxxx Kxxxx x Ax, P would have opened something stronger.

[kenrexford]

Jinksy, on 2015-October-28, 17:52, said:

I can't see any gain for bidding this way vs bidding 3♥. It just gives opps that little bit of extra info about P's hand, and potentially means he's playing it, having revealed so much.

I surely don't want to be in 3N, anyway. Opps are very likely to find the diamond lead, so we're going to need 9 tricks off the top, and with as much as AKxxx Kxxxx x Ax, P would have opened something stronger.

Look, I did not come up with this idiotic opening bid. I am just trying to deal with the ridiculous problem it created as best possible. The fact that the end result is silly is a result of the conditions a priori.

[Jinksy]

This idiotic opening bid evolved after a lot of testing in which it got a lot of good results. On this hand, your options are to bid the same 4♠-1 the other teams are in, and give yourself an outside chance of being the only one to make having concealed your hand much better, or just make 3♠.

Bidding an obviously doomed contract slowly seems obviously worse than punting one of two reasonable ones.

[KurtGodel]

Kxxxx KJxxx Kx x is a completely ill fitting minimum, game still is not that bad (hopefully some spade spots in there). I bid 4♠.
Edit: Out of curiosity what are your other pre-empts?

[Jinksy]

3-bids are nat, all other 2-bids are the same playing strength (10-13ish total points), 5+ of the suit.

[rmnka447]

I'm not playing in a part score when vulnerable at IMPs with at least an 8 card ♠ fit and 23-24 points minimum. 4 ♠ for me.