[kwiktrix]

 benlessard, on 2015-September-24, 10:56, said:

If 1C start at 15 than I assume you play a weak NT so 1D always show 4diamonds right ? (or maybe 4135?) once 1D is natural-ish 15-22 with primary D are better under 1D than under a strong clubs. It also free up 1C-1Y-2D to be artificial strong hand rather than 15-20 with diamonds.

I have two versions of 1D opening [which I play with different partners, or under different scoring conditions]

a) 10-14, 4+d, canapé -> 3+M responses [officially allowed by ACBL as a "treatment" over a canapé opening, provided it is alerted], 3hearts before 3+spades. 1D-1H-1S shows 5=x=4+=y. CANNOT have exactly 4M - they are ALL opened with 1M, EXCEPT 1D-1M-1N shows exactly 4441 with singleton in other major. 1D-1S-1N shows 5hearts and balanced. 1N opening is 12-14 including 5M332 hands with 5M Stayman. Preference for IMPS.

b) 10-14, 4+d canapé as above with 3+M responses. ALSO balanced 5M332 hands. 1D-1H-1S shows 5spades, either 5=(332) or 5=x=4+=y. CANNOT have exactly 4M - they are ALL opened with 1M. 1D-1S-1N shows 5hearts=332. 1N opening is 10-14 [NO 4+M]. My preference for MP but has problems with 4441 hands [some lies involved].

All hands containing exactly 4M are opened 1M with canapé responses [1H-1S only guarantees 3+spades]. Because we use 1N as an artificial GF, 2suit is NF and shows 5+suit - which is OK, but we only have PASS available for a balanced non GF hand. We've argued about moving 4M balanced hands to the 1N opening, but it will require a narrowing of the range to 11+-14 and a change in the response structure. This would allow 1N to be F1, because all openings then are unbalanced and have a rebid available, and 2/1 responses can be NF. This is a point of contention with GCC however.

Quote

Shape before strength is the key to a good bidding system. Strong hands are very easy to bid its the weak hand and the 6-8 that are tough. If the strong club can be aggressive (like 15 bal), I would rather play 1C-1D as artificial GF and all my other bids not GF than the other way around. But both these methods are bad, its much better to show shape as much as possible. GF hand can always keep bidding on anyway. Losing the forcing pass is annoying but showing shape is better anyway.

1C-??

1NT to 2H are 6 cards xfer that are weak or GF.

I can tell you that these are our biggest imps winners.
I can tell you that if you have the 2nd hand opener will bid 2S like 99% of the times and then the strong response can continue to describe (showing singleton clubs)

You have taken up a lot of space to show 6+card responses - whether weak or GF. How do you respond with a simple balanced 3point hand? Also - GF hands have to have slam tools available. It's taken a second bid by responder to establish a GF. And how does opener with a HUGE hand force partner to bid again?

[benlessard]

Ok since your 1D show 4D you should really put the 15-22 with D in there too. I wouldnt put 5C+4M but would certainly put 4D+5C and 5D+4C 11-21 in 1D. 1M limited but 1D not limited is great, when 1M is limited you get 1M-4M auction but 1D-5D or 1D-3NT is rare anyway so the gain of a limited 1D are narrow.


In term of consuming bidding space 1NT to 2H represent less than approx 18%.

Having a 6 card suit weak of GF is about that number too.

My estimation for bidding space is something like

40+,25+,15-,10-,5-,3-,2

this mean that in a ideal world where my partner are smart computers and my opps dont bid you want the 1D responses to above 40% you want 1H to be above 25% you want 1S to be under 15% 1NT to be under 10% etc...

These are very conservatives number and 1D response should probably be closer to 50%.

http://www.bridgebas...-and-fibonacci/

However this post assume that opener always relay by bidding the next cheapest bid. IRL after 1C--(P)--2H--?? 4th seat is likely to pass and here opener is a lot likely to bid 2S while after 1C-(P)-1D-?? there is more chances of an overcall and opener is also likely to bid something else than 1H. So in a bi-directionnal model where both players can give information & opener is not forced to bid the cheapest bid the bidding space is even more precious so 1C---1NT/2C/2D/2H should be less than 18% while 1C---1D/1H/1S should be more than 80%.


Waht do we do with 3 pts.

1C-1D = 4H or any 6-8 or any GF bal
1C-1H = 4S weak or GF
1C-1S = no M weak or GF

so we get a lot of

1C-1D-1H-pass
1C-1H-1S pass
1C-1S-1NT-pass.

If opener is very strong we have 2D available for near gf and GF bal and we have 3C to 3NT for true GF.
There is 10 near gf for every true GF.

ex

1C-1H-??

1S is 15-20
1NT is 15-20
2C = 15-20
2D = any 21-23 hands or GF bal
2H = nat 15-20
2S = 19-21 with 4S
2NT = 21-22 withouth 4S
rest is GF

over

1C-1H-2D (near GF)

we always use the same structure

2H= im broke 0-2 pts
2S = ive got some values and no shortness in a majors
the rest is short in a major.

[kwiktrix]

OK - I've had a lot of great input. The consensus is that:

1) Responses 1R/1N/2C all have equal load [since they are based on the same shapes but different suits] and this is bad, since 1N/2C are much higher bids.
2) Shapely Weak and GF responses can be potentially combined into one bid, with clarification later.
3) 1D can accommodate some of the big minor suited hands [1D-1M-3m, 1D-1H-2S, 1D-1M-2N]. This doesn't help responder, though.
4) Semi-forcing hands need more bids.

Changes to 1C Opening:
a) Move 15-19 6+m to 1D
b) Move 15-19 5+m4+m to 1D
c) Move 15-19 minor-major 2-suiters [5+5+] to 1D

The new structure of responses to 1C looks like this:
1D = 10-14, all 4+h, or 0-6 balanced [could have any 4333, 4432, 5332] or 0-6 6+h:

then after 1H [not breaking the relay]. If relay is broken by opener [spades or huge hand], then revert to natural bidding
1S = 0-6 balanced [only 4333, 4432, 5332], MAX 1 control - after 1N [15-19+], responder can bid 2x to play or pass
1N/2C = 10-14 4h/5+m [as before]
2D = 0-6 6h or 10-14 6h [added weak option, responder passes the 2H GAMMA with weak]
2H = 10-14 4h/5s [as before]
2S = 10-14 balanced 4h [not 4h333, could have 44M] or 5h332 [new - balanced options] - then 2N relay, 3H=GAMMA 4/5. After Relay, then 3m=4h4m, 3H=5h332, 3N=4h4s
2N/3C = 10-14 5h/4+m [new]
3D = 10-14 1=4=4=4 - then 3H/4m=ETA, 3S=BETA, 3N to play
3H = 10-14 4h/6s [new]
3S = 10-14 4h333 [new]
3N = AKQxxx in hearts [new]

Symmetrically
1H = 10-14, all 4+s, or 0-6 6+s:

then after 1H [not breaking the relay]. If relay is broken by opener [hearts or huge hand], then revert to natural bidding
1N/2C = 10-14 4s/5+m [as before]
2D = 10-14 4+s/5h [as before]
2H = 0-6 6s or 10-14 6s [added weak option, responder passes the 2S GAMMA with weak]
2S = 10-14 balanced 4s [not 4s333] or 5s332 [new - balanced options] - then 2N relay, 3S=THETA. After Relay, then 3m=4s4m, 3S=5s332, 3H=4s4h, 3N=4s333
2N/3C = 10-14 5s/4+m [new]
3D = 10-14 4=1=4=4 - then 3S/4m=ETA, 3H=BETA, 3N to play
3S = 10-14 4s/6h [new]
3H = 10-14 4s333 [new]
3N = AKQxxx in spades [new]

1S = 10-14 no 4+M, EXCEPT 10-14 4441 singleton minor, or 0-6 minor suits, or 55 minors

then after 1N [automatic]
2C = 10-14, 4+d, denies 4+M - then after 2D, show shape?
2D = 10-14, 4+c, denies 4+d, denies 4+M - then after 2H, show shape?
2H = 10-14, 4=4=(41) - then after 2S, 2N=4c, 3C=4d, then BETA, ETA, etc.
2S = 0-6 55 minors
2N = 0-6 6+c
3C = 0-6 6+d

1N = 7-9, 5+c, no 4+M
2C = 7-9, 5+d, no 5+c, no 4+M
2R = 7-9, 5+M
2S = 7-9, balanced [or weak minors]?
2N/3suit = weak pre-empts