[mikeh]

 mike777, on 2017-January-23, 22:42, said:

and the size is important why?...bias?

posters have already told us trump lies, trump is a racist, trump is a bigot, trump is a fascist

.

My opinion is that he is deeply insecure about being illegitimate due to losing the popular vote by a completely unprecedented margin. Add in his historic sensitivity to perceived slights, and an inability to appreciate any form of objective truth, and it becomes inevitable that he had the biggest inauguration crowd, and that Clinton got an impossible turnout of illegal voters, even though the only documented fraud was someone who tried to vote twice for Trump.

This bodes very, very badly. Spicer is unlikely to have been a true believer in his lies, if only because the lies are so patent. This suggests that those close to trump are unable or unwilling to persuade him to act reasonably even when the reaction of most, other than his core believers, is so predictable. It really does seem as if trump has a significant mental health issue. A psychiatrist friend of mine is convinced that he had a personality disorder, and it is virtually impossible to treat or even modify the behaviour of someone at his age with such a disorder. The really, really scary thing is that the US military are rigorously trained to obey the uniform, not the person. So it takes an unusual military mind to refuse insane orders.

Remember, trump has consistently, over many years, bragged that the secret to success is that if someone tries to screw you, screw them back 15 times as hard. The US electorate just gave that man the biggest screwdriver in the world

[Winstonm]

From WaPo:

Quote

President Trump has officially declared the day of his inauguration a national day of patriotism.

Trump's inaugural address on Friday frequently referred to patriotism as the salve that would heal the country's divisions. “When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice,” Trump said from the steps of the Capitol after being sworn in as president.

Later that day, Trump's press secretary, Sean Spicer, said that naming a national day of patriotism was among the executive actions that Trump took in his first few hours as president.

[mikeh]

 Winstonm, on 2017-January-24, 09:26, said:

From WaPo:

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

[y66]

 mike777, on 2017-January-23, 22:42, said:

and the size is important why?...bias?

It's a fun problem. There is obviously some interest in the estimate itself and what goes into producing estimates like this one. I suspect Pressman and Chenowith are also interested in questions about how numbers are used to explain and understand what's going on in the world. Have you read Innumeracy?

[barmar]

 mike777, on 2017-January-23, 22:42, said:

and the size is important why?...bias?

The Daily Show did a segment last night showing similarities between Trump's claims about the size of his inauguration to the way men boast of their "manhood".

[barmar]

 Winstonm, on 2017-January-24, 09:26, said:

From WaPo:

My understanding is that 9/11 is the date he chose for the Day of Patriotism. Do we really need a proclamation to make 9/11 a solemn day every year? I worry that giving it a holiday-style name means we'll start getting "Patriotism Day Sales".

But maybe that will be good for the economy.

[Winstonm]

 barmar, on 2017-January-24, 11:02, said:

My understanding is that 9/11 is the date he chose for the Day of Patriotism. Do we really need a proclamation to make 9/11 a solemn day every year? I worry that giving it a holiday-style name means we'll start getting "Patriotism Day Sales".

But maybe that will be good for the economy.

Everything Trump does or suggests to me has a Stalin-esque background vocal.

[barmar]

BTW, we already have a Patriot's Day holiday in Massachusetts, in honor of the patriots of the American Revolution. Although it's now marred with remembrance of the Boston Marathon bombing.

[PassedOut]

 mikeh, on 2017-January-24, 09:04, said:

This bodes very, very badly. Spicer is unlikely to have been a true believer in his lies, if only because the lies are so patent. This suggests that those close to trump are unable or unwilling to persuade him to act reasonably even when the reaction of most, other than his core believers, is so predictable. It really does seem as if trump has a significant mental health issue.

During the campaign, many folks gave Trump a pass on his constant lying, surmising that he was simply trolling for votes among the credulous. But no! Trump lies even when it advances no rational objective, and even when everyone with at least a bit of common sense sees that he is lying.

It might be darkly funny to have such a pathetic figure in the White House, but it's dangerous too. Unless those around him can somehow find ways to muzzle Trump, more and more people will be ridiculing him, and his behavior will deteriorate more and more in reaction.

[Winstonm]

And the hits just keep on coming....

During the campaign, Trump said that all he knows comes from the internet. We should have believed him.

Quote

As Spicer explained that the president believes in the existence of mass voter fraud, multiple reporters noted that just one day prior, Spicer had promised to never knowingly tell a lie from behind the lectern.

But Spicer never violated that pledge. When he came out and said that Trump believes that millions of undocumented immigrants cast ballots against him, he was telling the truth. Trump genuinely does believe it.

All of this creates a conundrum for the press. How are reporters supposed to cover someone who believes in demonstrable lies, least of all a president?

[Al_U_Card]

 PassedOut, on 2017-January-24, 15:50, said:

During the campaign, many folks gave Trump a pass on his constant lying, surmising that he was simply trolling for votes among the credulous. But no! Trump lies even when it advances no rational objective, and even when everyone with at least a bit of common sense sees that he is lying.

It might be darkly funny to have such a pathetic figure in the White House, but it's dangerous too. Unless those around him can somehow find ways to muzzle Trump, more and more people will be ridiculing him, and his behavior will deteriorate more and more in reaction.

...Apparently LBJ lied about everything too, albeit in private...

Better to see it live and as I said before, the electorate chose a lair and a crook over a liar, crook AND hypocrite.
Once he has had a couple of reality checks, in public, he will likely reserve his fantasies for in camera discussions.

[Zelandakh]

 Winstonm, on 2017-January-24, 17:40, said:

And the hits just keep on coming....

During the campaign, Trump said that all he knows comes from the internet. We should have believed him.

If I were a reporter I might have asked him if he believes it, or if he is declaring it as fact that there was voter fraud on such a large scale. It is only a conundrum for the press if they continue not to actually do their jobs!

(Note: please excuse the split infinitive)

[jogs]

DOW 20K

The progressive left said the stock markets would crash if Trump won the presidency. Wrong by about 5,000 points.

What a thought. Businessmen are better at running the country than career politicians.

[WellSpyder]

 jogs, on 2017-January-25, 09:00, said:

Businessmen are better at running the country on behalf of businessmen than career politicians.

FYP

[Winstonm]

#1

Quote

President Donald Trump called for an investigation into illegal voting that he says took place in the 2016 presidential election, despite no evidence that widespread voter fraud ever occurred

I'm beginning to wonder if Trump's plan is to act so crazy and disturbed that Congress will have no option but to remove him from office under the 25th Amendment. If so, he is well on his way to proving his unfitness by trying to prove his own delusions about voter fraud in order to assuage his incredibly fragile ego.

#2

Quote

The question of how many people attended Trump's inauguration ceremony in person on Friday has been a hotly debated topic since it unfolded after a photo of the National Mall from the vantage point of the Washington Monument was compared with one of Barack Obama's first inauguration in 2009.

To ABC News: attempted validation of a known lie and defensive protection of the liar is not "debate".

[ldrews]

Quote

I'm beginning to wonder if Trump's plan is to act so crazy and disturbed that Congress will have no option but to remove him from office under the 25th Amendment. If so, he is well on his way to proving his unfitness by trying to prove his own delusions about voter fraud in order to assuage his incredibly fragile ego.

Do we actually have any facts/evidence in this area? Has anyone credible investigated? I have read that the Detroit precincts are pretty messed up with significantly more votes recorded that actual votes in the ballot box.

Quote

Detailed reports from the office of Wayne County Clerk Cathy Garrett show optical scanners at 248 of the city’s 662 precincts, or 37 percent, tabulated more ballots than the number of voters tallied by workers in the poll books.

[barmar]

 ldrews, on 2017-January-25, 13:47, said:

Do we actually have any facts/evidence in this area? Has anyone credible investigated? I have read that the Detroit precincts are pretty messed up with significantly more votes recorded that actual votes in the ballot box.

Trump is claiming deliberate voter fraud, with millions of illegal votes (he says it's responsible for him losing the popular vote), not voting machine errors like these (it's not clear why these errors would be biased towards any particular candidate).

[mikeh]

 jogs, on 2017-January-25, 09:00, said:

DOW 20K

The progressive left said the stock markets would crash if Trump won the presidency. Wrong by about 5,000 points.

What a thought. Businessmen are better at running the country than career politicians.

Hmmm


You have a president who has surrounded himself with billionaires in cabinet, and a congress led by republicans bought and paid for by billionaires, who are going to cut regulations on business (remember 2008 and how cutting regulations and gutting the SEC worked out then?), and who are going to drastically lower corporate tax rates.

That ***** may be and likely will be catastrophic for the country, but it will be wonderful for big business and the 1% who largely own corporate America, so of course the stock market is up, and will likely continue to gain.

I have most of my retirement investments in US stocks, so from a selfish point of view, this is good news for me, altho I am definitely not a 1%'er.

I don't expect the costs of these policies will be apparent for many years.

[Winstonm]

 ldrews, on 2017-January-25, 13:47, said:

Do we actually have any facts/evidence in this area? Has anyone credible investigated? I have read that the Detroit precincts are pretty messed up with significantly more votes recorded that actual votes in the ballot box.

There have been a number of studies done - none has discovered rampant voter fraud.

[PassedOut]

 ldrews, on 2017-January-25, 13:47, said:

Do we actually have any facts/evidence in this area? Has anyone credible investigated? I have read that the Detroit precincts are pretty messed up with significantly more votes recorded that actual votes in the ballot box.

I only know of one voter (a Trump voter) who was arrested for trying to vote twice. Of course, Trump advisor Steve Bannon was registered in both New York and Florida and Trump's daughter Tiffany was registered in both New York and Pennsylvania, but there is no evidence that either of them voted twice (and I'd be pretty surprised to learn otherwise). In any case, these situations are unusual enough that it's almost impossible that they threw the election to Trump.

Even the problems you point out in Michigan, which was Trump's closest victory, would not have taken away enough Trump votes to swing the state to Clinton. And Trump's lawyers argued emphatically in court that there was no evidence for election fraud.

It's also nonsense to think that illegals voted in large numbers in California, as California was going for Clinton regardless. There was only risk and no reward for any illegal who tried it.