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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#10321 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2018-June-09, 00:51

View Postldrews, on 2018-June-08, 21:21, said:

I would then say that the term racist has lost any differential meaning. Almost all of the people who grew up in that era would be racist by your definition.


I very much disagree...

I know plenty of people of my grandparent's generation who were able to learn that

  • Its not appropriate to use hate speech to describe ethnic minorities
  • Discriminatory hiring practices are wrong
  • Redlining housing is a thing of the past
  • Ginning up a race war is highly problematic


More importantly, they knew that society has moved on and that there is no going back to the "good old days" when the n******s knew their place, the gays were in the closest, and men got to beat their wives.
Alderaan delenda est
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#10322 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2018-June-09, 07:50

From The Defeat of Reason by Tim Maudlin at Boston Review:

Quote

People are gullible. Humans can be duped by liars and conned by frauds; manipulated by rhetoric and beguiled by self-regard; browbeaten, cajoled, seduced, intimidated, flattered, wheedled, inveigled, and ensnared. In this respect, humans are unique in the animal kingdom.

Aristotle emphasizes another characteristic. Humans alone, he tells us, have logos: reason. Man, according to the Stoics, is zoön logikon, the reasoning animal. But on reflection, the first set of characteristics arises from the second. It is only because we reason and think and use language that we can be hoodwinked.

Not only can people be led astray, most people are. If the devout Christian is right, then committed Hindus and Jews and Buddhists and atheists are wrong. When so many groups disagree, the majority must be mistaken. And if the majority is misguided on just this one topic, then almost everyone must be mistaken on some issues of great importance. This is a hard lesson to learn, because it is paradoxical to accept one’s own folly. You cannot at the same time believe something and recognize that you are a mug to believe it. If you sincerely judge that it is raining outside, you cannot at the same time be convinced that you are mistaken in your belief. A sucker may be born every minute, but somehow that sucker is never oneself.

A sucker may be born every minute, but somehow that sucker is never oneself.

The two books under consideration here bring the paradox home, each in its own way. Adam Becker’s What Is Real? chronicles the tragic side of a crowning achievement of reason, quantum physics. The documentarian Errol Morris gives us The Ashtray, a semi-autobiographical tale of the supremely influential The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (1962) by Thomas S. Kuhn. Both are spellbinding intellectual adventures into the limits, fragility, and infirmity of human reason. Becker covers the sweep of history, from the 1925 birth of the “new” quantum physics up through the present day. Morris’s tale is more picaresque. Anecdotes, cameos, interviews, historical digressions, sly sidenotes, and striking illustrations hang off a central spine that recounts critical episodes in the history of analytic philosophy.

If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#10323 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-June-09, 13:37

The leader of the free world speaks (hint: it's not Dennison)

Quote

Amid headlines about tariff disputes, a basic fact is lost. The so-called Group of Seven “most industrialized countries in the world” is not just a club for the rich, but for leaders who traditionally assumed they shared the same basic values: belief in empirical facts, fundamental human freedoms, sacrosanct democratic processes, and the rule of law. All of which is to say it’s a club where Trump doesn’t fit in. He has shown he shares none of those values. Indeed, from the question of climate change to his dealings with Russia, he’s unapologetically hostile to them.

When French President Emmanuel Macron talked regretfully about making the G7, in fact, G6 plus one, he was essentially recognizing the fact that Trump doesn’t belong.


Quote from TheDailyBeast
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#10324 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2018-June-09, 14:53

View Postjohnu, on 2018-June-08, 19:56, said:

So what you are saying is once a bigot and racist, always a bigot and racist? Don't bother answering, that was a rhetorical question. And it's fake news that all of today's children will have much different attitudes, prejudices, and foibles. You don't have to look any further than all the young white supremacists at the Charlottsville riots.

A racist can learn better. Even if they can't get rid of ingrained attitudes, they can at least avoid showing it in public. Especially someone who aspires to the highest office in the land.

As for whether we've progressed, the white supremacists in Charlottesville are not as representative of the general population as they would have been 50 years ago.

#10325 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2018-June-09, 15:30

View Posty66, on 2018-June-09, 07:50, said:

From The Defeat of Reason by Tim Maudlin at Boston Review:




Whew. I read the entire piece. Not easy but very interesting. He is a man of strong views.

I liked "In his epic and epically incomprehensible masterpiece The Critique of Pure Reason (1781), Kant pulled off the grandest intellectual hocus-pocus in scholarly history." In a fit of late adolescent bravado I tried reading Kant. At one point I focused on a specific sentence and decided I was not getting up until I understood what it meant. After an hour or two, I decided it was hopeless. I now know better than to try. And Maudlin has little good to say about Wittgenstein. I could like this guy. The enemy of an enemy is a friend.
But of course he is reviewing a couple of books. The Becker book sounds great. I won't say I'll read it, I already have too many unread books that I have claimed I will read. But I might. It sounds very good. The Morris book maybe not. I expect that I would largely agree with the author. But do I want to read it? Well. We will see. Don't hold your breath.

But the review of both books was excellent. Well, I suppose I cannot say that with certainty unless I actually read the books. But I certainly enjoyed the review.


Thanks for the reference.

Ken
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#10326 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2018-June-09, 16:52

View Postbarmar, on 2018-June-09, 14:53, said:

As for whether we've progressed, the white supremacists in Charlottesville are not as representative of the general population as they would have been 50 years ago.


Back in the heyday of the KKK, most of the Klansmen wore hoods to conceal their identities. Today, white supremacists don't feel the need to conceal their identities with POTUS Dennison recognizing them as "fine people".

We haven't regressed 50 years yet, but as a country we are moving backwards at an alarming rate.
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#10327 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2018-June-10, 10:50

From the NYT Editorial Board:

Quote

What if we’ve been electing our politicians the wrong way this whole time?

Voters in Maine will tackle that question on Tuesday, when the state holds its primaries using a radical yet sensible electoral reform that could fundamentally change how campaigns are run and who ends up winning. It will be the first time the method — known as ranked-choice, or instant-runoff, voting — is used in a statewide election.

The purpose is to ensure that officials are elected with an outright majority when there are three or more candidates, and to elevate those with the widest appeal. It works like this: Rather than checking a box for just one candidate, voters rank all candidates in order of preference. If a candidate earns a majority of the votes, he or she wins. If not, the candidate with the fewest first-choice votes is eliminated, and his or her ballots get redistributed to whomever those voters ranked second. If another round is needed, the process continues, eliminating the candidate with the next fewest votes, until one candidate has a majority.

It may sound complicated, but it works smoothly in countries from Australia to Ireland to New Zealand. More than a dozen American cities have adopted ranked-choice voting, including San Francisco; Minneapolis; St. Paul; and Santa Fe, N.M. Nearly everywhere it’s in use, voters and candidates say they’re happier with it.

This is probably because it encourages candidates to reach out to as many voters as possible, which ranked-choice advocates say generates more moderate politicians and policies that more accurately reflect what most people want. Aiming for broad appeal also results in more positive and substantive campaigns, they say, because candidates don’t want to risk attacking their opponents and turning off voters who might be willing to list them as a second or third choice.

Quote

Ranked-choice voting can’t single-handedly fix America’s broken elections, but it’s a worthwhile experiment, and it’s already proved to make for a better process, particularly in candidate-heavy primaries. If it’s combined with other electoral reforms, like multimember districts that can more accurately reflect the political makeup of a region, it could do even more to help voters feel that their voices are being heard, even if they’re in the minority. And that could help drive up turnout, which is notoriously bad in midterm elections.

If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#10328 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-June-10, 12:26

The Dennison/Brexit connection keeps getting curioser and curioser.

Quote

An email, seen by The Daily Beast, was sent to Banks at 11.57am on Friday by Cadwalladr advising him that The Observer had obtained copies of his emails which laid bare the scale of his interactions with Russia. They appeared to show that he and Leave.EU colleague Andy Wigmore had multiple meetings with high-ranking Russian officials, that Banks visited Moscow in February 2016, and that he had been introduced to a Russian businessman by the Russian ambassador who allegedly offered him a multibillion dollar investment opportunity in Russian goldmines.

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#10329 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-June-10, 14:41

From the NYT:

Quote

How Good Is the Trump Economy, Really?
It depends on whether you look at the level, the direction or the rate of change — three concepts that are often conflated.

By Neil Irwin
June 9, 2018

The Trump administration has become downright boastful about the state of the economy.

“In many ways this is the greatest economy in the HISTORY of America,” the president tweeted recently. After I analyzed the May employment data by consulting a thesaurus and writing a cheeky article using a lot of near-synonyms for “good,” the Trump administration blasted it out approvingly to the White House press list and through a presidential tweet.

But I also received some blowback from liberals. There were some similarly good months for job growth in the Obama administration, they noted. And my analysis was not nearly so effusive then.

So which is it? Is the economy doing exceptionally well, or performing only about as well as it did in the late years of the Obama administration?

The answer depends on precisely how you phrase the question, which in turn hinges on a crucial distinction that people often fail to make when talking about the economy. There’s a big difference between the level of economic performance; the direction of change in the economy; and the pace of change.

Think of the economy as a bathtub. The level of the water in the tub — how much economic activity there is — is one useful, interesting question. Whether the water level is rising or falling — is this an economic expansion or recession? — is a separate question. And how fast the water level is changing — what is the pace of growth? — is a third question.

All might be useful information, but they capture different things. And too much of the debate over how the economy is doing conflates them.

So how good is the Trump economy? It depends on which of these approaches you take.

The economy looks strongest if you look only at the level of economic activity, not the rate of change. For example, per-person gross domestic product adjusted for inflation is at its highest level on record, as are other similar measures of output.

That isn’t very surprising. Over time, workers tend to become more productive thanks to improving technology and the nation’s stock of machinery and other capital increases. So we expect G.D.P. to rise most of the time, and to fall only during the occasional recession. By this measure, 60 percent of the time since modern G.D.P. statistics began in 1947, a president could accurately claim that the economy is the best it has ever been.

Other measures of the level of economic performance are also quite good, though not historically so. The 3.8 percent unemployment level is the lowest in 18 years, but it was lower in 1969. The lowest on record was 2.5 percent in 1953.

And the very low jobless rate masks some weakness in the labor market. Among adults in their prime working years, 79.2 percent were working in May, which is still below that statistic’s 80.3 percent recent high in early 2007 and its record high of 81.9 percent in 2000.

Still, if you look only at the level at which the economy is performing, the Trump administration does have plenty to be excited about.

Similarly, the direction of the economy looks to be positive by almost every measure. Employers are adding jobs; output is rising, as are incomes. Another term for a shrinking economy would be an economy in recession, and there is no reason to believe that a recession is currently underway.

Then there’s the growth rate. This is the measure by which the Trump economy looks very much like a simple, straightforward continuation of President Obama’s second term.

In 2016, for example, Mr. Obama’s last year in office, employers added an average of 195,000 jobs a month. In the first 17 months of the Trump administration, the average has been 190,000.

It shows up in G.D.P. numbers, too. What may look like a nice smooth line of steady improvement in per-capita G.D.P. growth in the chart above looks a lot more herky-jerky when you look at the same data in terms of percent change over the previous year.

And looking at the growth rate instead of the level shows that the 2.09 percent improvement in the first year of the Trump administration is below a couple of the peaks of the Obama second term, including a 3 percent reading in the year ending in the first quarter of 2015.

In talking about the economy, the level, direction and rate of change all matter. They just matter in different ways.

The late 1990s, for example, featured both strong levels of economic activity and fast growth. In the aftermath of a steep recession in 1982, there was a different combination: a weak level of economic activity paired with fast growth. The 2010-2011 time frame featured weak economic activity paired with slow growth, a nasty combination.

The reason my analysis was more effusive about the recent economic results than it was about similar growth numbers during the Obama administration is that strong growth numbers are more impressive — and unexpected — at a time when the level of economic activity is already high. When the jobless rate was, say, 7 percent, we needed strong job growth just to put the unemployed back to work. To get similar job growth rates with an unemployment rate below 4 percent is reason for a little more giddiness.

So what is the most honest way of talking about the Trump economy? It goes like this: The president inherited an economy that had come a long way toward healing. During his administration, the economy has continued growing at about the same rate it did before he took office, pushing incomes, employment and output to yet higher levels.

There are plenty of problems that remain in the United States, economic and otherwise, and the degree of credit the president deserves for the state of the economy is an open debate. But this is a bathtub that is already pretty full, and the water’s rising nicely.

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#10330 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2018-June-10, 17:14

re: the bathtub analogy: You also have to consider the level, direction and rate of change for all bathers, including future bathers, not just U.S. one percenters in 2018 who will probably do fine when the next downturn comes and when the next weather disaster demolishes their yacht club.
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#10331 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2018-June-10, 19:47

"White House tasks office with taping together papers after Trump rips them up: report"

https://www.msn.com/...twp3?li=BBnb7Kz

Is this a headline from the Onion?
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#10332 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2018-June-10, 22:14

Interesting to watch the revelations regarding Russian support for Brexit

https://www.thetimes...ction-7nbwc7m58
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#10333 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-June-10, 23:17

View Posthrothgar, on 2018-June-10, 22:14, said:

Interesting to watch the revelations regarding Russian support for Brexit

https://www.thetimes...ction-7nbwc7m58


From NYMag:

Quote

The emails show show that Banks had previously undisclosed meetings with Russia’s U.K. ambassador (which were set up by an alleged Russian spy), and had made a previously undisclosed visit to Moscow at the peak of the Brexit campaign. Banks and Wigmore were also offered, at one point, a business deal involving several Russian goldmines that could have been worth a fortune for the men, according to the documents. There is a Trump connection, as the Sunday Times reports that Banks admitted that, months after the Brexit referendum, “he handed over phone numbers for members of Trump’s transition team to Russian officials” — though it’s not yet clear whose info he handed over, or what became of it.

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#10334 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-June-11, 08:13

Putin's Little Helper

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SINGAPORE (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump fired off a volley of tweets on Monday venting anger on NATO allies, the European Union and Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau in the wake of a divisive G7 meeting over the weekend.


Oligarch wanna-be, Dotard Dennison, continues to do his hero's work by trying to unravel the Western Alliance. Hopefully, the world will understand that Dennison did not win the popular vote and does not act on the will of the American people.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#10335 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2018-June-11, 08:22

Looks like the NRA angle is coming to the forefront

https://www.mcclatch...e212756749.html
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#10336 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2018-June-12, 03:39

View Posthrothgar, on 2018-June-11, 08:22, said:

Looks like the NRA angle is coming to the forefront

https://www.mcclatch...e212756749.html


That's the problem with all politicians and people associated within the political spectrum: money talks.

Here's a press article from the one of the UK's own most democratic and trusted UK newspapers

https://www.theguard...-oleg-deripaska

The Wikipedia entry makes interesting reading too.

https://en.wikipedia...Peter_Mandelson

If I had a pound (dollar) for every honest politician the world over I'll still be poor :(
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#10337 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2018-June-12, 05:26

View PostFelicityR, on 2018-June-12, 03:39, said:


If I had a pound (dollar) for every honest politician the world over I'll still be poor :(


There are plenty of honest politicians, they just don't get elected because they don't tell people what they want to hear
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#10338 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2018-June-12, 09:08

View PostCyberyeti, on 2018-June-12, 05:26, said:

There are plenty of honest politicians, they just don't get elected because they don't tell people what they want to hear

Yep, "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" and "The West Wing" are fantasies. There might have been a time when they were only 50% divorced from reality, but these days it's more like 90% away.

#10339 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-June-12, 09:51

This week's episode of Vandertrump Rules saw Dennison offering a flower to Bachelorette Rocketta Mann.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#10340 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-June-12, 12:33

Dennison got what he wanted from the summit - 15 more minutes of fame.

Or maybe it was this. ;)
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