[ArtK78]

Another from my district's GNT semifinals:

---

What is your plan?

[KurtGodel]

4♠
Then I will try and make it.

[eagles123]

yes 4s seems clear

[ArtK78]

What is your reason for not opening 1♠?

[broze]

ArtK78, on 2015-May-03, 15:54, said:

What is your reason for not opening 1♠?

The only time 4S loses over 1S is when you miss the perfecto slam. The 4S bidders hope that the obvious gains by preempting outweigh this.

[KurtGodel]

ArtK78, on 2015-May-03, 15:54, said:

What is your reason for not opening 1♠?

There are two basic reasons for opening 1♠. Firstly it will be easier to play in slam when slam is making, secondly it will be easier to play in clubs. I don't really think that we belong in clubs anyway, so this shouldn't really be an issue, with such a good and long spade suit we must belong in this strain nearly all the time. Opening 4♠ has some advantages: it will be a lot more difficult for your opponents to guess what to do. This might not be our hand, and in this case they will struggle to bid slam or find the right game. Or it could be our hand, but they bid anyway, and at this vulnerability we are getting very good odds. I don't think we should fret about missing the odd slam, yes partner might have two out of the following: red aces, Q♠/length and after all that they need a club control too. If you need to catch partner with an opening bid rich in controls then I think that you are asking for too much, and you should just pre-empt.

When you bid 4♠, you will make life a nightmare for your opponents, especially if you open some junk too in this seat/position. They won't know whether you have a good hand like this, or some KQJxxxxx x xx xx rubbish. You might discover that they don't know their methods that well; yes your opponents look decent, but are they 100% sure that 4NT is 2 or 3 places to play, is some 5NT GSF or pick a slam etc... Since you are going to bid 4♠ at some point in the auction, you should do it now. Don't worry about slam, it's not even clear you are making game yet.

[aguahombre]

ArtK78, on 2015-May-03, 15:54, said:

What is your reason for not opening 1♠?

Well, if you are looking for support for a 1S opening bid, FWIW you get it from me. Our 1st & 2nd seat 4-bids are clean expecially in Spades. It is the top suit, the stiff Q of hearts is a subtractor, and the QJxx of clubs also contra-indicates creating a CHO.

[nige1]

ArtK78, on 2015-May-03, 14:46, said:

Another from my district's GNT semifinals: What is your plan?

---

IMO 4♠ = 10, 1♠ = 8.
The singleton ♥Q might take a trick if opponents compete

[ArtK78]

I thought that this was an interesting hand. At the table, it occurred to me that a 4♠ bid might work out well, but I decided to go with 1♠. I achieved a good result on the hand but not because of the 1♠ opening. It turns out that a 4♠ opening might have won the hand outright, as neither opponent has a clear cut action over 4♠ and they are cold for 12 tricks in hearts. At the table, I was allowed to play in 5♠x down 1 (the opps did not find their club ruff) and my teammates were allowed to play in 5♥ so we won 11 IMPs. Both I and my counterpart opened 1♠. Partner held:

This was the auction at my table, and the full hand was something like this (I might have a spot card or two wrong):

---

The downside of opening 4♠ is that if the opponents do bid over 4♠ you are almost never going to bid 5♠ when it is right. On this hand it is arguable whether 5♠ is right as the opps may bid on to their somewhat fortunate making 6♥. But in real life they let me play in 5♠ on an auction where I gave them some room to show what they had. How will they bid 6♥ with less information? (The answer, of course, is that sometimes you bid on because you have less information, as paradoxical as that might seem).

[benlessard]

Quote

The downside of opening 4♠ is that if the opponents do bid over 4♠ you are almost never going to bid 5♠ when it is right.

For me its the opposite, after a direct 4S partner will be tempted to sac more often in 5S than after 1S followed by 4S.

1S-(X)-1NT-(4H)
4S-(5H)-??

vs

4S-(X)-P-(5H)
p-(P)-??


Not only the 2nd auction got more odds of buying the hand in 4S it also have better odds for a correct 5S contract.

[MrAce]

4 ♠

If I opened 1♠ then my 2nd bid is 4♠

[ArtK78]

MrAce, on 2015-May-03, 19:07, said:

4 ♠

If I opened 1♠ then my 2nd bid is 4♠

I strongly disagree with the idea that you should rebid 4♠ after opening 1♠. That doesn't just show a strong distributional hand, but a strong hand. Partner could overvalue cards that are not working.

[Phil]

1♠ for me. This hand is just too good at these colors for a preempt.

Do you really expect partner to move over 4♠ with AAA or even AKAA?

[Phil]

ArtK78, on 2015-May-03, 20:54, said:

I strongly disagree with the idea that you should rebid 4♠ after opening 1♠. That doesn't just show a strong distributional hand, but a strong hand. Partner could overvalue cards that are not working.

That depends what your rebid structure is. After 1N, if I had 3♣ available to show many hand types, including single suited spades and a GF, then a 4♠ rebid is appropriate.

[PhantomSac]

Man I have really become a curmudgeon but 4S to me is not bridge and I would hate to be on a team with someone who opens 4S with this hand.

[karlson]

PhantomSac, on 2015-May-03, 21:56, said:

Man I have really become a curmudgeon but 4S to me is not bridge and I would hate to be on a team with someone who opens 4S with this hand.

Wow, that's pretty shocking actually. I thought it was a normal 4♠.

[akwoo]

PhantomSac, on 2015-May-03, 21:56, said:

Man I have really become a curmudgeon but 4S to me is not bridge and I would hate to be on a team with someone who opens 4S with this hand.

I think this really depends on how good at competitive decisions you and your partner are compared to the opponents. Opening 1♠ allows everyone to exchange more information. Are you and your partner better at using the information, or are the opponents better at using it?

I bid 4♠ playing against Justin and 1♠ playing with him, possibly unless we're up against Meckwell.

[aguahombre]

akwoo, on 2015-May-03, 23:09, said:

I think this really depends on how good at competitive decisions you and your partner are compared to the opponents. Opening 1♠ allows everyone to exchange more information. Are you and your partner better at using the information, or are the opponents better at using it?

I bid 4♠ playing against Justin and 1♠ playing with him, possibly unless we're up against Meckwell.

I am nowhere near Justin's league, but I am sure he would be grateful to have opponents who would open 4s here. My partner is not in that league, either; but, I would rather have her across from me as a partner than as a CHO I have created with a 4S bid.

[MrAce]

PhantomSac, on 2015-May-03, 21:56, said:

Man I have really become a curmudgeon but 4S to me is not bridge and I would hate to be on a team with someone who opens 4S with this hand.

What would you bid over 1 NT by pd and 2♥ on your right on your 2nd call?

[PhantomSac]

karlson, on 2015-May-03, 22:08, said:

Wow, that's pretty shocking actually. I thought it was a normal 4♠.

Almost all of the thread seems to agree with you so it is more likely I'm wrong. BBF is a biased sample in these issues though, but it is pretty overwhelming.

I would be pretty surprised if many top players opened 4S though, not that that makes it wrong (and awm in particular has posted that many more strong hands should be opened 4S iirc, and the pavlicek thing that says of hands that people on vugraph opens 1M or 4M, 4M is a big winner).

Just seems super gambley with such a good hand that includes "THE BOSS SUIT." I am on board with opening 4M w/r with tons of weak hands in first seat (like any 7-4, any 7321 with a good suit), but I don't like it with good hands that don't need that much for slam. Obviously saying "thirteen points" is unreasonable since stiff Q is not worth much, but stiff Q does make it a worse 4S bid for many reasons imo.

4S puts pressure on them but it will be hard to punish them when they're wrong, our hand is so good that partner is not very likely to rip them. And it's not so good that 4S X AP is a great scenario (like if we had 9 solid spades and out or something like that). We have some good defense vs 4H/3N, and we have a good hand for slam that we will obviously miss a lot with 4S, I really don't like the added pressure with a hand like this with so many downsides.

I guess if it was a BBF field I would dislike this action a lot less from my teammate, but in a normal field I think very few people open 4S and it is a totally random action (which is ok with big +EV but tbh I find it -EV even in a vacuum) so I wouldn't really like to deal with the swings of that.