[wank]

Vul against not
1S from lho
2h from p
4s on right
Back to p who doubles

Your hand
Jx
Kxx
Xxxx
Ktxx

Your bid? Noone agrees with me heh. Posted by phone so please no whining about the non diagram.

2nd question, would you double (or have doubled 1s originally) with p's actual hand:-

X
Ajtxx
Axx
Aqxx

---

[wank]

Oh yes imps btw

[nige1]

wank, on 2015-April-20, 13:09, said:

Vul against not. Your hand ♠ J x ♥ K x x ♦ X x x x ♣ K t x x
(1♠) 2♥ (4♠) _P
(_P) _D (_P) ??

IMO Pass = 10, 4N = 9, 5♥ = 8.

[wanoff]

wank, on 2015-April-20, 13:09, said:

Vul against not
1S from lho
2h from p
4s on right
Back to p who doubles

Your hand
Jx
Kxx
Xxxx
Ktxx

Your bid? Noone agrees with me heh. Posted by phone so please no whining about the non diagram.

4NT 2 places to play. Remove 5m to 5♥.

[mikeh]

I bid 5♥ as a 2 way shot.

There are no guarantees, but as little as x AQxxxx AQx QJx makes 5♥ odds on with the auction as it was. Meanwhile, give them 5-5 spades (or an 11 card fit) and they only need a little shape to get out for 100. They could even make, tho I don't expect it.

Btw, I do acknowledge the careful club J on my example hand I am not claiming that we will 'usually' make 11 tricks, but when we don't, I expect to lose 5 imps if they defend at the other table, and when/if we make, I expect to win 11 imps, and at those odds, declaring is best. Of course, there is some chance of 300 but as the chances of 300 increase, so too does the chance of our making, at least imo.

[billw55]

wanoff, on 2015-April-20, 13:58, said:

4NT 2 places to play. Remove 5m to 5♥.

What is the point of offering other places to play, if I am going to pull them to 5♥ anyway?

I just bid 5♥. Vul against not at IMPS, problem seems designed to make me do that, which probably means it is wrong

[mgoetze]

billw55, on 2015-April-20, 14:28, said:

What is the point of offering other places to play, if I am going to pull them to 5♥ anyway?

It's a slam try. Which I consider quite ludicrous.

[PhantomSac]

mikeh, on 2015-April-20, 14:27, said:

There are no guarantees, but as little as x AQxxxx AQx QJx makes 5♥ odds on with the auction as it was.

Agreed, and that hand is a very debatable double to say the least. I think if posted on here most people would not X with that hand.

I fully expect 5H to make, this X often has a spade void in which case they will probably bid 5S.

[wank]

Ok 2nd question, would you double (or have doubled 1s originally) with p's actual hand:-

X
Ajtxx
Axx
Aqxx

[mikeh]

wank, on 2015-April-20, 15:22, said:

Ok 2nd question, would you double (or have doubled 1s originally) with p's actual hand:-

X
Ajtxx
Axx
Aqxx

I would double immediately.

While I will overcall 2/1 with a 5 card suit, I tend/prefer to have 6 or a better 5 card suit than this, plus I have good minors.

There is no one factor that plays into the double or overcall issue, but putting together all of the factors, I prefer a double. Yes, we will sometimes/often miss hearts, and hearts are important, but this hand isn't all about hearts.

Of course, to get a more objective answer would have required waiting a few weeks and then posting the hand as a 1st round problem. Not a complaint, since I understand why you did it this way, but an observation that you may not be getting reliable feedback..including from me.

Having overcalled, I can see the temptation to double, but this isn't the playing hand that double implies. In fact, I'd be more comfortable with x AJ10xxx Axx AQx. That 6th heart is a full trick if partner pulls, and he will/should pull quite often. Note that it wouldn't be a defensive surprise.....partner will or should always infer that you hold a 6 card suit in this situation. Plus, if he does have minor length, holding AQx in clubs is better defensively than AQxx and usually almost as good offensively. If he runs to clubs he will always have at least 5 of them and may have 6. The downside is when he runs to 4N and we are 1=6=3=3.

[lamford]

wank, on 2015-April-20, 15:22, said:

Ok 2nd question, would you double (or have doubled 1s originally) with p's actual hand:-

X
Ajtxx
Axx
Aqxx

I would have bid 2H originally, narrowly, as losing 5-3 hearts seems the biggest downside for double. I would double now, of course - what else? On the six-count, I do not expect to make 5H that often, and would pass, as I am pretty sure 4S is not making. The law suggests that we have 8 or 9 hearts and they have probably 10 spades, so the 5-level is fraught. The 2H bidder may have a sixth heart and/or a void spade, but we might still fail in 5H. +300 may be the best we can do here, and 5H might have a nasty trump queen guess.

[helene_t]

I would maybe have been brave and made a responsive double which partner might be happy to pass with his three aces. 5♥ wouldn't occur to me

[jallerton]

wank, on 2015-April-20, 15:22, said:

Ok 2nd question, would you double (or have doubled 1s originally) with p's actual hand:-

X
Ajtxx
Axx
Aqxx

I double 1♠. This tells partner a lot more than overcalling 2♥. The downside is that we'll occasionally miss a 5-3 ♥ fit, but we'll also miss some 5-2 and 5-1 fits; double makes it much easier to get to other strains.

[billw55]

mgoetze, on 2015-April-20, 14:52, said:

It's a slam try. Which I consider quite ludicrous.

Hm yes, well, that definitely never occurred to me on these cards.

[wank]

personally i have no problem with 2h originally, but once you've done that, i think you have to let 4s go. you don't have enough offence to invite p to the 5 level which i would accept with the original hand.

5h was smacked for 500 against 4s-1

[WesleyC]

I don't have a strong opinion about Norths 2H bid. 2H/Double are both fine for me.

South's choice on the second round is also close, but against aggressive opponents I would lean towards pass. The decision is close enough that if my opponents were conservative (e.g. always have a 10/11 card fit for this auction, won't double us much in 5H, a reasonable chance to bid 5 over 5 etc.) I would bid. At these colours, I want my partner to double 4S on many maximum overcalls with sharp cards like [Ax ATxxxx AKx Qx] and as a result I'd rather be conservative in response.

[lamford]

wank, on 2015-April-22, 10:09, said:

personally i have no problem with 2h originally, but once you've done that, i think you have to let 4s go. you don't have enough offence to invite p to the 5 level which i would accept with the original hand.

5h was smacked for 500 against 4s-1

I have changed my view on the original 2H after reading jallerton's post, and think double initially is a bit better, but I think the real problem was that partner pulled the "action?" double of 4S on the hand you gave. Did you agree with the 5H bid? I reckon that both 4S and 5H are going off over 80% of the time on a rough sim.

[mikeh]

lamford, on 2015-April-22, 13:12, said:

I have changed my view on the original 2H after reading jallerton's post, and think double initially is a bit better, but I think the real problem was that partner pulled the "action?" double of 4S on the hand you gave. Did you agree with the 5H bid? I reckon that both 4S and 5H are going off over 80% of the time on a rough sim.

The argument tends to become circular. If I were the overcaller, 5♥ would have excellent play. Justin 'fully expects it to make'.

However, if you would overcall on a 5 card suit and then double with what appears to me to be a borderline hand (being generous), then, yes, 5♥ will fail much of the time.

So: if you think the overcall on the actual hand was reasonable, convert the double. If not, pull. I pull.

[mike777]

mikeh writes swell.