[straube]

Partner and I just ironed out our 1M-2N as LR+ with 4+ trump structure. Our 1M is 5+ 10-15. We're playing...

3C-GF, could be as light as AKxxx x KJxx xxx
.....3D-bal
..........3H-bal
...............cues now
..........3S-high singleton
..........3N-mid singleton
..........4C-low singleton
.....3H-high short
.....3S-mid short
.....3N-low short
3D-GF bal, not terrible
.....3H-bal
..........cues now
.....3S-high short
.....3N-mid short
.....4C-low short
3H-high void, any strength
3S-very bad
.....3N-bal
.....4C-high short
.....4D-mid short
.....4H-low short
3N-mid void, any strength
4C-low void, any strength

One thought I had was that we aren't dividing opener's strength very well. If opener is accepting game with AKxxx x KJxx xxx but could have AKxxxx x AQxxx x that's a pretty wide range. Of course with
a maximum distributional hand, opener can just take over. But what does he do with AKxxx x AQJxx xx if responder signs off after heart shortness has been shown? This hand isn't really off opener's chest.

I'd rather play something like...

3C-minimum but may accept game after a sign off attempt
3D-medium, GF
etc-maximum, interested in slam opposite a LR, probably 6-4 or better

Any thoughts here? I know we have threads here about 1M-2N but finding them...

[steve2005]

You might try to find games where opener is light but with shortness if hands match well.

Revision (Precision) has a 2N Limit+ raise with 4+cards if limit but 3+ cards if GF

Can be found at Bridge with Dan http://www.bridgewit...tems/index.html

[petterb]

straube, on 2015-April-06, 08:22, said:

Partner and I just ironed out our 1M-2N as LR+ with 4+ trump structure. Our 1M is 5+ 10-15. We're playing...

3S-very bad

So 1H-2N;3S-3H is the way to stop in 3H when opener has a very bad hand?

[straube]

petterb, on 2015-April-06, 17:11, said:

So 1H-2N;3S-3H is the way to stop in 3H when opener has a very bad hand?

...the opponents willing. It's 1M-2N, 3M a very bad hand. 1M-2N, 3OM with a high void. Thanks for pointing out my mistake.

[Trick13]

After 1M - 2NT:

3♣ = a minimum - but may bid game after sign-off (3♦ asks for a singleton)
3♦ = a singleton (3♥ asks)
3♥ = a void (3♠ asks)
3♠ = a good 5-card side suit (3NT asks)
3N = 5332
4m = 5M-4m-2-2
4M = 6332

You need to tell a lie with 5M-4OM-2-2, but partner may have started differently if he was interested in that.

[straube]

That looks good. Partner came up with

3C-minimum, may plan to accept game
.....3D-bal, slam try
..........3H etc-no, hi, mid, low short
.....3M-nf
.....3OM etc-hi, mid, low short

3D-max but not slamming opposite LR
.....3H etc-no, hi, mid, low short
.....4M-LR

3H-slamming opposite LR, a singleton
.....3S-no short
..........3N etc-hi, mid, low short

etc-slamming opposite LR, hi, mid, low void

Doesn't give a lot of info unless we're serious about slam

[PhilKing]

I think your partner is along the right lines. The point is that if you play 2NT as LR+, something has to give. My choice is to give up stopping in part score if opener has an unbalanced hand. Then the following becomes pretty efficient:

3♣ = almost all hands with no shortage
3♦/♥/♠ = stepped shortages
3NT = 6M extras no shortage

after 3♣, responder can show the LR, relay for exact shape, or show a shortage.

Simple and effective.

[gnasher]

PhilKing, on 2015-April-07, 17:14, said:

Simple and effective.

But quite helpful for anyone who might be required to defend a 4M contract.

[cherdano]

PhilKing, on 2015-April-07, 17:14, said:

I think your partner is along the right lines. The point is that if you play 2NT as LR+, something has to give.

Why?

I have often played the following structure:
3C = min (may still accept game invite)
3D = extras no shortness, 3H asks:

• 3S = balanced
  
• 3N = 6+ trumps
  
• 4x = 4-card side suit (5422)

3H/3S/3N: extras with shortness lo/mi/hi
4x: 5-card side suit

Over 3C, 3D asks, 3H = some shortness, other replies as above.

It seems best to play 3H/3S/3N requiring only mild extras; that maximizes the chances of the auction 1M-2N-3C-4M.

Note: I am not trying to be snippish here, I genuinely wonder what you think is wrong with a structure such as the above. (Obviously, sometimes you get fairly high before discovering opener's shortness - e.g. 3C-3D-3H-3S-4D = shortness in other major - but in these auctions, opener has already shown a minimum.)

[straube]

cherdano, on 2015-April-08, 02:16, said:

Note: I am not trying to be snippish here, I genuinely wonder what you think is wrong with a structure such as the above. (Obviously, sometimes you get fairly high before discovering opener's shortness - e.g. 3C-3D-3H-3S-4D = shortness in other major - but in these auctions, opener has already shown a minimum.)

I think it's a good structure and particularly easy to remember. If you're looking for feedback, however, it gives the defenders information when partner only has a limit raise and is not likely interested in slam and it divides opener's strength into essentially two pots instead of three.

I've been wondering if it would be better for 1M-2N, 3C to be max, 3D-min, and the rest slamming opposite a LR. Essentially reversing the 3C and 3D meanings. It probably makes little difference.

[inquiry]

You should look at Glenn Ashton's Jacoby 2NT plus method on his bridgematters webpage. I include a link to it below and it has worked well for me for years.




jacoby 2 NT

[awm]

Maybe a slightly more symmetric structure with less info revealed opposite limit raise:

3C = min
3D = extras some shortage
3H = extras no shortage
3S,3N,4C = slam interest opposite LR with high/mid/low shortage

After 3H:
... 4M to play
... 3N,4m = hi/mid/low shortage
... 3S = bal very strong, ask cue

After 3D:
... 4M to play
... 3H asks shortage

After 3C:
... 3M limit raise only
... 4M to play
... 3D relay; then 3H balanced, 3S+ short

[straube]

I like it. A lot easier to remember. Thanks

[mikestar13]

Trick13, on 2015-April-06, 22:49, said:

After 1M - 2NT:

3♣ = a minimum - but may bid game after sign-off (3♦ asks for a singleton)
3♦ = a singleton (3♥ asks)
3♥ = a void (3♠ asks)
3♠ = a good 5-card side suit (3NT asks)
3N = 5332
4m = 5M-4m-2-2
4M = 6332

You need to tell a lie with 5M-4OM-2-2, but partner may have started differently if he was interested in that.

Some tweaks that might be useful (nice structure, BTW):

3♣/3♦/3♦/3NT/4M = as above.
3♠ = 5-4-2-2 (3NT asks, then 4m=4 card suit, 4♥ = 4OM).
4m = 5-card suit
4♥ (when spades are trump) = 5-card heart suit.

[Trick13]

mikestar13, on 2015-April-09, 14:37, said:

Some tweaks that might be useful (nice structure, BTW):

3♣/3♦/3♦/3NT/4M = as above.
3♠ = 5-4-2-2 (3NT asks, then 4m=4 card suit, 4♥ = 4OM).
4m = 5-card suit
4♥ (when spades are trump) = 5-card heart suit.

Yes this is better.