[Zelandakh]

pescetom, on 2021-February-11, 17:04, said:

Thanks. I guess that begs the question of what is the "standard" meaning of bids after 4♣ - 4♦. We play 4♦ as a puppet to 4♥, but if after that responder continues with a control-bid then 4♦ promised control in diamonds.

Not that I have played it in a while but from memory the old (circa 1980s) way was:-

4♣ - 4♦
==
4♥ = 1 loser suit, no outside ace/void
4♠ = 1 loser suit + ♠A
4NT = 1 loser suit + side void (there is a good case for reversing these 2 calls)
5m = 1 loser suit + mA
5♥ = no loser suit
--

With a hand without slam interest you are just supposed to bid 4♥ and hide the unknown hand. I am also aware that there are plenty of variations (such as 4♥ = 7PTs; 4♠+ = 8PTs) and even the definition of a Namyats hand has shifted somewhat over the years. In general though, the initial ask divides the range into weak and strong (typically 1 trick difference) and the higher calls show some side feature. This is (at expert level) often followed up by some kind of asking bid structure but that is well beyond the basic level of playing the convention.

[AL78]

I've come to this thread late, but here is what I play with one of my partners:

3♠: Lond solid minor, no A or K outside.
3NT: 4♣ or ♦ pre-empt.
4♣: Long solid ♥ or 1 loser ♥ and an outside ace.
4♦: Long solid ♠ or 1 loser ♠ and outside ace.
4♥/♠: pre-empt, suit and hand worse than 4♣/♦.

I can't comment on how effective it has been as it has never come up in the several years we have been playing it.

[pescetom]

Zelandakh, on 2021-February-11, 17:22, said:

Not that I have played it in a while but from memory the old (circa 1980s) way was:-

4♣ - 4♦
==
4♥ = 1 loser suit, no outside ace/void
4♠ = 1 loser suit + ♠A
4NT = 1 loser suit + side void (there is a good case for reversing these 2 calls)
5m = 1 loser suit + mA
5♥ = no loser suit
--

With a hand without slam interest you are just supposed to bid 4♥ and hide the unknown hand. I am also aware that there are plenty of variations (such as 4♥ = 7PTs; 4♠+ = 8PTs) and even the definition of a Namyats hand has shifted somewhat over the years. In general though, the initial ask divides the range into weak and strong (typically 1 trick difference) and the higher calls show some side feature. This is (at expert level) often followed up by some kind of asking bid structure but that is well beyond the basic level of playing the convention.

Thanks again, will file that away.
We get both the 0/1 loser and side ace/void information through our control-bid sequence, so probably not missing much there.
We play the direct bid of 4♥ as forcing, as without slam interest we can pass 4♦-4♥.
Swings and roundabouts I guess, but it does give responder more options when he wishes to hide the unknown hand.