[lycier]

---

Now we need to discuss this hand with 21hcp and 2-3-3-6 distribution.

1- If opening 1♣,I am afraid we maybe lose game.
Even though I respond 1♠ at 1-level,Gib jump 2N only shows 18-19hcp with balanced hand,I have to say that description is distorted,a bad bid.

2- I think maybe it is best to open 2N.

[Bbradley62]

I actually think North is too strong to open 2N; I'd open 2♣ and rebid either 2N or 3♣.

[Stephen Tu]

I think it's 2c-2d-2nt. Not strong enough for 2c-2d-3c IMO which should be 9.5-10 trick hand IMO.

[goffster]

this is a matter of judgement. This seems like a good hand for gib to use its random sampling
to aid judgement.

[1eyedjack]

I would be ok with a 2n opener

[lycier]

Bbradley62, on 2015-February-14, 22:44, said:

I actually think North is too strong to open 2N; I'd open 2♣ and rebid either 2N or 3♣.

It belongs to human judgement for what you said,however Gib is not human,so it is necessary for Gib to adhere to its strict discipline.
I think it seems that opening 2N is a best choice.

[Bbradley62]

I don't think GIB will open any number of NT with this distribution, so I think the choices are 1♣ and 2♣. Of course, being unwilling to open NT should also imply being unwilling to rebid NT...

[lycier]

My judgement is this is a balanced hand.

I remenbered that Hardy had ever said "Determine whether balance depends on the location of the distribution of top cards in its suit.".
For this hand,opening 2N is not a strict shape of it,but this is the most appropriate description, just other options more bad,IMO.

[Bbradley62]

lycier, on 2015-February-16, 19:22, said:

It belongs to human judgement for what you said,however Gib is not human,so it is necessary for Gib to adhere to its strict discipline.

lycier, on 2015-February-16, 20:05, said:

My judgement is this is a balanced hand.

So, GIB can't agree with my judgement but he can agree with your judgement?

[lycier]

Bbradley62, on 2015-February-16, 20:09, said:

So, GIB can't agree with my judgement but he can agree with your judgement?

hehe,very good,very interesting.
So this needs our joint efforts.
Now I wanna listen to gorgi advice.

[georgi]

GIB currently cannot open 2NT with 6th minor.

I don't think i am capable for giving bridge advises, but my opinion for my style when i play with GIB would be if i were North i would have opened 1♣.

My thinking would be if my partner passes i doubt i would make any game at all.

With little help in spades i would be able to make for sure 3NT. With little help in clubs i would have 60%+ slam.

If he bids diamonds, i would be tempted to place 3+ ♣ as his majors are 0-3 cards in most of the cases.

So the information i would/might get with 1♣ i think is the most. If he bids xNT would be clubs help as well.

[1eyedjack]

georgi, on 2015-February-25, 05:46, said:

GIB currently cannot open 2NT with 6th minor.

Am I right in saying that GIB places the same shape limitations on NT rebids as it does on NT openers?

[Bbradley62]

1eyedjack, on 2015-February-25, 07:18, said:

Am I right in saying that GIB places the same shape limitations on NT rebids as it does on NT openers?

I like to think of 1m-1x-2N as showing "a 1.5NT opener" and 2♣-2♦-2N as showing "a 2.5NT opener".

[georgi]

1eyedjack, on 2015-February-25, 07:18, said:

Am I right in saying that GIB places the same shape limitations on NT rebids as it does on NT openers?

All openings or direct ( not in 4th seat ) overcalls ( including 2♣ - 2♦ - 2NT ) are requiring for Balanced shape ( 5332/4432/4333 ).

Once it's NT rebid it allows semi-Balanced or that's 6322 + the others above.

1♥ - 1♠ - 2NT could also be 6322, but it's one HCP less than minors openings 17-19 vs 18-19.

[gordontd]

lycier, on 2015-February-14, 22:26, said:

Now we need to discuss this hand with 21hcp and 2-3-3-6 distribution.

1- If opening 1♣,I am afraid we maybe lose game.
Even though I respond 1♠ at 1-level,Gib jump 2N only shows 18-19hcp with balanced hand,I have to say that description is distorted,a bad bid.

2- I think maybe it is best to open 2N.

Maybe it's played with you before and knew you would take two bids with a balanced 3-count?

[Stephen Tu]

georgi, on 2015-February-25, 05:46, said:

GIB currently cannot open 2NT with 6th minor.

I don't think i am capable for giving bridge advises, but my opinion for my style when i play with GIB would be if i were North i would have opened 1♣.

I think GIB would be much better if allowed to open 6m322 with 1nt/2nt/2c rebid 2nt when appropriate. When having honors in the doubletons, and less solid clubs. It should probably also open 1nt if in range on 2425/2245/2452 patterns not holding spades IMO, to avoid reverse sequences that may end up higher than you want.

The main problem with not treating these hands as balanced is rebid problems. If a 1nt opener, typically the only other plausible rebid is 3♣, 1♣-1M-3♣. This is less palatable than opening 1nt when the club suit is relatively weak and the strength is in the doubletons. If stronger than a 1nt opener, the problem is that rebidding 3♣ isn't strong enough! 3♣ typically has around 15-17 hcp IMO, maybe 14 hcp with solid clubs or 7 great clubs. Holding 19+ hcp you really can't rebid 3♣ (because non-forcing and partner may pass missing a good game), therefore you have to either rebid 3nt (in which case why not just open some number of notrump so you find your 5-3 major fits) or reverse/jump-shift into a 3 cd or 2 cd fragment (which is likely to run into GIB accidents).

The main complaint on this hand is that GIB is too strong to rebid 2nt! If it is going to open 1♣, it can't take the same bid on 21 HCP that it does on 18. This strong it has to rebid 3nt. On other hands 20+hcp, like with 3226, it could fake a diamond reverse conceivably to find out if partner has 5 cd spade first (if you first fix the stupid treatment over reverses where responder bids 2nt with weak hands with 5 cd spades) before bidding 3nt.