[ahydra]

---

MPs, both sides NV. Opps are decent club players. ATB.

Thanks,

ahydra

[wank]

south, meet pass card. pass card, meet south.

[MrAce]

South of course. I am surprised N did not seek grand. Try to place 10 hcp to south w/o ♦ values.

[nige1]

Ahydra asks MPs, both sides NV. Opps are decent club players. ATB.

---

IMO South overbid a bit. Another interesting question is whether, when committed to a slam, there's a route to the playable 6♥ ?

[awm]

Both. South for overbidding on the first double and North for not trying 6H. This is the sort of hand where hearts can be much better -- give south KJTx KJxx xx Jxx where he more or less has his bid for example.

[neilkaz]

wank, on 2014-November-13, 18:28, said:

south, meet pass card. pass card, meet south.

Yep

[aguahombre]

Contrary to Mr. Hog's position (another thread), ATB is all about resulting. Yes, South overbid, but he did show 4-4 in the Majors. So:

If West has HX of hearts, then North is to Blame for not immediately realizing Hearts, not Spades should be trump..South's overbid would have gotten the "Credit" if North had chosen 6 Hearts -- a given action.

If the hearts could not be picked up for one loser, then South's overbidding is to blame for being in Slam.. and North is to blame for being in the wrong strain down two instead of one.

Here, North can never get the "credit", because he chose the Spade strain, but he could become blameless if the Club queen drops and both strains make the same number of tricks.

[whereagles]

East.

Both N/S streched a bit, but I find their bidding reasonable in context.

[cherdano]

awm, on 2014-November-13, 20:01, said:

Both. South for overbidding on the first double and North for not trying 6H. This is the sort of hand where hearts can be much better -- give south KJTx KJxx xx Jxx where he more or less has his bid for example.

Did you misread the auction perhaps?

For me, bidding 5♠ over 5♦ shows a real preference - with 4-4 I would almost always bid 5♥ (or 6♦), but hardly ever 5♠. Takeout double can have many shapes and we have little space - the goal of this auction should be to find our fit, not to pick the 4-4 fit with the T over the 4-4 fit without the T.

[aguahombre]

South already showed 4-4. 5D certainly doesn't ask South whether he has 4-4. At that point it seems South was just showing his stronger one, but he shouldn't have. His choices should have been to show weakness with 5H, or full strength for his previous bidding via something other than 5H.

[cherdano]

Oh, I see. No, for me double does not show 4=4 in the majors. It would be routine with 4=3=2=4 and many other shapes.

[MrAce]

cherdano, on 2014-November-14, 14:50, said:

Oh, I see. No, for me double does not show 4=4 in the majors. It would be routine with 4=3=2=4 and many other shapes.

That's true of course. Thinking that double showed 4-4 majors is naive imo. I guess with 4324 hands they simply bid 4♠ and hope that they hit partner's 4 card M. I am also surprised with Adam's reply for the same reason.

[aguahombre]

Kenberg's quote in my tagline seems to fit.

[MrAce]

aguahombre, on 2014-November-14, 15:26, said:

Kenberg's quote in my tagline seems to fit.

Playing double 4-4 majors and not be able to double with other **** loads of hands, is awful imho. And by saying "awful" I am really giving you a break because I love ya Aguaman.

[kuhchung]

MrAce, on 2014-November-14, 15:18, said:

That's true of course. Thinking that double showed 4-4 majors is naive imo. I guess with 4324 hands they simply bid 4♠ and hope that they hit partner's 4 card M. I am also surprised with Adam's reply for the same reason.

If we're willing to offer 5C as a place to play, can't we double, pull 4H to 4S, and then leave the decision up to partner?

[MrAce]

kuhchung, on 2014-November-14, 16:34, said:

If we're willing to offer 5C as a place to play, can't we double, pull 4H to 4S, and then leave the decision up to partner?

This is exactly what I am saying, we can be 4-4 in blacks, 4-4 in majors, 4-4 in hearts+clubs. Thus bidding hearts first as Arend(cherdano) said is critical and that playing double with only 4-4 majors is disabling us from a lot of other things we can do efficiently. I am assuming you are talking about the partner of first doubler.

[kuhchung]

Oh sorry, I misunderstood the post I quoted. You were talking about a world where contre guarantees 4-4 majors.