[Fluffy]

Madrid Teams Championship. 2 teams full of international players are on top when they face each other during the round robin (which will be final), the winner will likely win the tourney.

After awful results on the first 5 boards this one comes:

---

Lead is ♦5, how would you play?

You can try the hand here http://bridgegod.com...d=402&artid=147

[MrAce]

Gonzalo, I do not think this is considered as NFB. In std methods, all forced 2 level bids after double are NF and RDBL followed by suit is forcing. 1 level responses are F1. When you say NFB I think of

1♠-(2♣)-2♥

The hand you gave, S hand looks like more of a 1 NT response than 2♣ to me, but it is close. Make clubs 6 carder and I would bid 2♣.

[Fluffy]

Can you explain the difference between NF and NFB?

While you are at it... can you see I sent you a private message? or did it somehow get lost?

[Vampyr]

Just remember that a NFB is after the opponents overcall,

[gnasher]

Good problem. It took me three goes to get it right.

[mgoetze]

Fluffy, on 2014-October-20, 16:09, said:

Can you explain the difference between NF and NFB?

NF stands for "nonforcing" and NFB stands for "negative free bid". All NFBs are NF, but not all NF bids are NFBs.

[mikestar13]

Is 1♠-(X)-2♣ forcing in whatever in considered standard in Spain? If so, but OP's partnership plays it non forcing, the description of the call as a negative free bid is correct.

"Free bid" is a bid in a position where partner is guaranteed another chance to call even if the bidder were to pass rather than bidding--that is, when bidders RHO did not pass.

Now in North American standard bidding (whatever the bleep that is), a free bid in a new suit when the intervention is a suit overcall is forcing, so if playing this non forcing by partnership agreement, this call is a "negative free bid".

OTOH, in North America, a free bid in a new suit at the two level when the intervention is double is non-forcing in standard, no no special designation is needed. in fact, some partnerships who do play it forcing say they are playing "positive free bids" after a double.

But are the standards the same in Spain as in North America? There are countries where it is standard that new suits at the two level after a double are forcing, in which countries partnerships who play it non-forcing quite reasonably say they are playing "negative free bids" after a double.

I have no idea what the standard is in Spain, but I do know the terminology--IIRC, I was already playing duplicate when the term "negative free bid" was invented (the term, not the concept, which is likely quite a bit older).

[benlessard]

I would really need to be desperate to bid 2C VUL with KJ852. Its ok to do it with a 5 carder but with a good suit not a crappy one.

Very good play problem. This was really a "no respect" double im glad you punish the double.

[Fluffy]

benlessard, on 2014-October-20, 22:49, said:

I would really need to be desperate to bid 2C VUL with KJ852. Its ok to do it with a 5 carder but with a good suit not a crappy one.

Very good play problem. This was really a "no respect" double im glad you punish the double.

Gotta ask him, but I suspect he though that with both players limited this was aking a third position preempt raised to game, and was afraid of partner's pass being forcing. There wasn't much difference between 750 and 600 anyway.

On the very next hand they made an even worse double of 5♠, if Timo had my hand I am sure he would had redoubled for +1200

[gordontd]

MrAce, on 2014-October-20, 15:32, said:

In std methods, all forced 2 level bids after double are NF and RDBL followed by suit is forcing.

I think that stopped being standard on this side of the Atlantic a long time ago.

[MrAce]

gordontd, on 2014-October-21, 01:44, said:

I think that stopped being standard on this side of the Atlantic a long time ago.

You are probably correct. It has been very long time since I played live bridge and has been away from developments in bidding. I doubt there ever was any standard on your side of the Atlantic, and I don't mean it in negative way because Europe has always been more liberal to the new ideas regarding restrictions, but it all depends on how one defines "standard". I believe "standard" means different things to different people at bridge.

To me it means, Gordon and Timo sits at the table representing BBF vs JEC, because a pair was missing and we needed to fill in. We agreed, lets say 2/1 1403 udca no bergen no puppet (this is what I tell to all pick up pds). You open 1♠ and they double and I bid 2♣, I am pretty confident that you would take this as natural and NF. I maybe wrong of course but I would bid 2♣ with this anticipation. So when I think of standard, rightly or wrongly, I think of bids that a pair would make to be simple and accident free, if they do not have any custom agreements. Even if they may not be as popular as they used to be anymore.
Another reason is, the alternative methods, even though they are superior and popular, have a lot of versions. It is almost impossible to play them comfortably without discussion, with a new pd. This alone disqualifies them from being std in my definition. But as I admitted, my definition may be wrong.

[MrAce]

Fluffy, on 2014-October-20, 16:09, said:

Can you explain the difference between NF and NFB?

While you are at it... can you see I sent you a private message? or did it somehow get lost?

Gonzalo, I got the message but I was too busy and forgot to reply you. Do what you need to do, I will have no problem with it regardless of what you write. And I really like and respect the work you are doing with that website.

[MrAce]

Fluffy, on 2014-October-21, 00:01, said:

.

.... if Timo had my hand I am sure he would had redoubled for +1200

I remember the hand you are talking about

[WellSpyder]

Fluffy, on 2014-October-21, 00:01, said:

On the very next hand they made an even worse double of 5♠, if Timo had my hand I am sure he would had redoubled for +1200

Last time I conceded -1200 in this fashion I was pleased to see that at least at one table the damage was even worse, conceding -1210 by doubling at the 6 level....

[Fluffy]

Best is I could laugh at them since the last 5 boards were

4♠ S -1
4♥ S -2
5♣ S -2
5♣ X S =
5♠ X N +1


-Please guys you should keep doubling or else we don't stand a chance

[jogs]

http://www.bridgebas...__1#entry810348

For definition of negative freebid.
Read post #25. Read the article by Karen Walker.