[Hanoi5]

Say it goes:

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Is 4NT a quantitative raise or asking for aces?

[helene_t]

Quantitative.

[aguahombre]

Yeh, quant. But Doubler must have a prime in the weak-two suit, because partner's 3NT doesn't show one.

[mikeh]

aguahombre, on 2014-October-14, 08:41, said:

Yeh, quant. But Doubler must have a prime in the weak-two suit, because partner's 3NT doesn't show one.

I don't agree. I think that is far too restrictive an interpretation. It merely asks partner to look at his hand. If doubler lacks a spade top, then he has those values elsewhere. The 3N bidder will need top of range to accept, and when doubler lacks a spade card then it is unlikely that advancer lacks both the A and the K and still likes his hand.

[aguahombre]

Doubler also has 4S in his bag, which could be quant without a Spade prime. As advancer, I would accept the 4N quant with JTXX QX KQJXXX AX. Guess it is a style thing. We can bail at 4NT/4S if I have that one opposite XX AKJX AXX KQJX.

[whereagles]

Without any agreements, I would say it shows a balanced hand better than a direct 2NT (15-17). So it would be like 18-19, asking pard to press on to 6 with 14-15.

[mikeh]

aguahombre, on 2014-October-14, 09:44, said:

Doubler also has 4S in his bag, which could be quant without a Spade prime. As advancer, I would accept the 4N quant with JTXX QX KQJXXX AX. Guess it is a style thing. We can bail at 4NT/4S if I have that one opposite XX AKJX AXX KQJX.

Well, apart from the fact that you have a 4=2=6=2 hand, which is not allowed under most rules, the notion of hogging the hand in 3N with 13 hcp outside of spades, a partner likely to have a stiff spade, and holding KQJxxx in suit leaves me sick to my stomach. If I did perpetrate such a horrific bid, I think over 4N I would bid 6♦.

Then I'd wait for dummy to hit and if he does have xx in spades, I announce I have 14 cards.

[aguahombre]

mikeh, on 2014-October-14, 10:24, said:

Well, apart from the fact that you have a 4=2=6=2 hand, which is not allowed under most rules, the notion of hogging the hand in 3N with 13 hcp outside of spades, a partner likely to have a stiff spade, and holding KQJxxx in suit leaves me sick to my stomach. If I did perpetrate such a horrific bid, I think over 4N I would bid 6♦.

Then I'd wait for dummy to hit and if he does have xx in spades, I announce I have 14 cards.

Typo -fixed to be 4-2-5-2. With JTXX QX KQJXX AX, I guess it depends on whether a non-leben 3D has an upper limit or is forcing. We now know that Doubler would have moved over 3D (because we have the thread UI about the 4NT bid over 3NT); but, I don't believe insisting on game without bypassing 3NT in this case is hand-hogging --- just practical.

[ggwhiz]

Quantitative in my partnership since 4 of anything is either 100% forcing and slammish or at least slammish in the case of a 4♥ bid.

Over 4nt if accepting we can answer straight Aces and then bid 4-card suits up the line or blast into 6nt or 6 of a source of tricks as we choose.