[wank]

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Scoring is BAM, matchpoints on steroids for the uninitiated.

In case you haven't bothered to click the 2H bid, it's weak with hearts and a minor 54+. If you think it's relevant, teamies just play 3 weak 2s.

lebensohl, yes, so no scramble. and 3D over 3C or 2NT is GF.

[foobar]

Are we playing Lebensohl and ELC (allowing a correction of 3♣ to 3♦ over a X without promising extras)? Of course, it doesn't help if partner is unkind enough to bid 2N, relaying to 3♣.

In any case, there's probably not much upside into coming in at this point anyway opposite a passed hand and pard might as well balance.

So, it might be just prudent to P and see what happens, but 3♦ might be a lead directing winner.

[wank]

foobar, on 2014-September-08, 17:29, said:

Are we playing Lebensohl and ELC (allowing a correction of 3♣ to 3♦ over a X without promising extras)? Of course, it doesn't help if partner is unkind enough to bid 2N, relaying to 3♣.

lebensohl yes, so can't get out into 3D if partner's got clubs.

[mgoetze]

Well, obviously I would love to be playing ELC right now but since I'm not, I will try my luck with the beginner-class bid of 3♦.

[mike777]

At Bam I will try double as a nonexpert.
Pass is option2

Next deal please

[mikeh]

Pass

Partner is a passed hand and we hold xxx in their suit. If we have game, then we need partner to have some values and relative shortness in hearts, in which case he will strain to balance.

Double is just wrong.....we cannot handle a 2N or 3♣ response, and even without those foreseeable outcomes, we can easily end up -200 even undoubled.....I go back to point 1.

If I could enter the auction with a good likelihood of playing a partial in whichever of my suits partner bests fits (and game when he really helps) I would bid, but our methods (which seem ok to me) make that so unlikely, that really we aren't dealing with the usual mp/bam criteria which is about frequency of gain as opposed to size of gain. Clearly (to me at least) the odds favour being able to compete for the partscore and/or push them a level higher....but we don't want to play clubs and we can't play a partscore in either of my suits if I double (unless partner bids one of course, and if he has, for example a bad 3=3=3=4, he may bid 2♠ and still lose the board.

I would rather overcall 2♠ than double, and I would rather double than bid 3♦ but I'd rather pass and hope either that partner can balance or that he has a really bad hand.

[nige1]

wank, on 2014-September-08, 16:45, said:

Scoring is BAM, matchpoints on steroids for the uninitiated.

In case you haven't bothered to click the 2H bid, it's weak with hearts and a minor 54+. If you think it's relevant, teamies just play 3 weak 2s.

lebensohl, yes, so no scramble. and 3D over 3C or 2NT is GF.

---

At the Brighton congress, Brian Senior conducted an excellent seminar on Tactics at different forms of scoring
IMO, Pass = 10, 3♦ = 9, 2♠ = 8, Double = 7. but I have a sneaking admiration for a brave double.

[the hog]

Hard decision. However partner is a passed hand. I will also pass on this and I had better do it quickly. Perhaps, (don't think this will happen though), partner can reopen with 2S?

My second choice is a 2S bid, but this comes some way behind pass.
To use Nigel's scoring :
Pass = 10, 2S = 6, 3D = 2, X = 0

[helene_t]

If ELC applies after a 3c response shouldn't it apply after 2nt? With this hand we have to decide whether we can double or not before we know partner's response

[Vampyr]

helene_t, on 2014-September-09, 01:07, said:

If ELC applies after a 3c response shouldn't it apply after 2nt? With this hand we have to decide whether we can double or not before we know partner's response

Without discussion I would expect at bypassing 3♣ after a Lebensohl 2NT to show significant extra values.

[PhilKing]

There is a basic error in technique being demonstrated in this thread.

Against a two-suited weak two, we are less likely to have a pure three-suited take out double. In fact, it is not even an advantage! Put it this way - if they told you the opening showed clubs and hearts, you would double like a shot, and that is what they will have 8 times out of 10.

Just double and bid 3♦ showing no extra values whatsoever.

[whereagles]

Pass. Pard will come up with something if he has the expected heart shortage.

If something, you can dbl playing ELC or something like that.

[ahydra]

Will he come up with something holding Qxxxx xx Qxxx Ax (after opps raise to 3H) where we're cold for 5S? Or Qxx Kxx QJx Q109x where 3NT rolls in? I highly doubt it. Ideal examples, admittedly, but this is a nice 14 we hold and I don't want to miss out on our partscore, let alone game.

Recall we're vul so partner is more likely to have at least some values since he can't open as light as when non-vul.

Provided that we have some sort of ELC available, I am X'ing. Yes it's BAM so we want to play safe, but as Phil states, opener's very likely to hold the rounded suits and so I'd expect partner to have a fit for at least one of my suits.

ahydra

[mcphee]

Pass I assume lights on here are the RED ones. Bidding could lead to a large digit. If I was forced to make a call it would have to be 2S. For those who consider dble, may god blees.

[Zelandakh]

Pass at these colours with this system but note PK's response (which to some extent says the same as Helene but in more detail).

[gszes]

We are back to the battle for part scores where we are not as concerned about losing HUGE
as we would be if we were playing IMPS. This is anything but a boring normal 14 count and
offensively it is closer to 17. Reaching game isnt really that much of a factor as much
as winning the board. A 2s overcall may give us our best shot at reaching game but IMHO

3d

gives us our best chance at a successful competitive contract. If the opps continue with 3h we
can back in with 3s.

On average p rates to have around 6 hcp so the deck is split. We might have the master suit
or not but the point is we need to compete with these types of hands. Double may work but it
carries a much greater risk since any club or 2n bid leaves us horribly placed.

3d=8 x=6 2s=4 p=3 and that is the main problem with pass it may work but generally we will
probably end up losing the board way too often at BAM.

There is one extra problem with x that keeps it from being the top score the partnership would play
a 3d conversion as game forcing so the conditions of contest relegate c to a 6 vs a 10. I agree that
playing ELC here makes x a standout but that is not what the OP stated.

[mike777]

It sounds like at the expert level ELC is commonly played in these types of auctions.

[Poky]

With ♥xxx and a passed partner, this is an auto-pass.

If I'm not capable of passing in tempo, then I double (correcting 3!C to 3!D).

The only bid that is really horrible is 3!D.