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2 Never, 3 Ever

#1 User is offline   uva72uva72 

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Posted 2014-August-22, 12:50

My link

Match points, ACBL robot individual

I have no right to complain about my result here. E-W are on for 6, and I got a better score than most of those who doubled 5. Still, there is something disturbing about West's free bid of 3 on 9xx rather than raising partner's and then sitting for East's raise to 4. Am I right in assuming that these free bids in 3-card suits are going away when a new version is deployed?

I'm also curious about North's defense. With a lead, once West plays a second and North ruffs, I don't think we can beat this contract. In what "scenario" is is right to lead a singleton when:
- you know the opponents have at most 7 trumps
- you have 4 trumps
- your partner has at least 15 hcp
- you are leading the dummy's long suit, which the declarer will likely need to develop as a source of tricks?

Having led a , in what scenario is it right to ruff when declarer returns the suit (Danger, Will Robinson!) when:
- you know that declarer has at most 4 trumps
- ruffing will likely reduce you below declarer's length
- based on the play of the suit, partner will be able to ruff the 4th round (and likely the 3rd)?
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#2 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2014-August-22, 13:39

Interesting hand. It was 2 off initially on the opening lead. As you say, ruffing the Club restricted it to 1 off. Thereafter it alternated between making and one off on various occasions, each side chucking one here and there.

I wonder whether you would have bought it in 3H had you bid it immediately over the 2D.



Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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#3 User is offline   iandayre 

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Posted 2014-August-22, 14:08

I hope you're right Uva, but I wouldn't hold my breath. What are we on now, revision #31? Like most of the others, #32 will probably make a few minor tweaks and leave the major flaws unresolved.
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#4 User is offline   uva72uva72 

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Posted 2014-August-22, 16:38

I think the suggestion of an anticipatory sacrifice in 3 is a good one given the vulnerability and my length and concentration of values in s, and I've noted it for future use.

I'm pretty sure, though, that the contract is ironclad once North ruffs the second club. If, on winning North's return , I try to force declarer with a second heart instead of playing a , West just ruffs, ducks a spade, wins any return (still having a trump in hand to handle another ), pulls trump (reaching dummy with a to the King if necessary) and runs the s. If I try returning a instead, it ducks that and proceeds as outlined. Have I missed something?
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#5 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2014-August-22, 17:21

View Postuva72uva72, on 2014-August-22, 16:38, said:

I'm pretty sure, though, that the contract is ironclad once North ruffs the second club. ... Have I missed something?


I am just being lazy and clicking on GIB d/d solver at each card play.

Apparently, a trump exit by North at trick 3 (having ruffed in on the Club) beats it. But it does require a trump. Anything else and it makes.

So, as North actually switched to Hearts, you are right that at that point it is making.

However, at trick 4, West needs to win the Diamond Ace in order to make. In reality he played a lower Diamond and was back to heading for one down.

Then, South on lead at trick 6, when in with the Spade Jack, must stay off Hearts in order to keep it one down. Either a Spade or Diamond would do, but the actual selection (Heart Ace) put declarer back on track to make. Thereafter, no errors were made.



Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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#6 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2014-August-22, 19:40

uva72uva72 is right. shouldn't be leading singleton. if I remember correctly NGib showed a suit and p raised it freely. Hmm might that be a good idea, lead your partner's suit.
pump declarer and eventually declarer will be out of trump and you run
but Gib almost never leads suit bid by partnership.

also, Gib should refuse to ruff the club, with the idea of getting trump control later.
Sarcasm is a state of mind
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#7 User is offline   Antrax 

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Posted 2014-August-22, 21:43

View Postiandayre, on 2014-August-22, 14:08, said:

What are we on now, revision #31? Like most of the others, #32 will probably make a few minor tweaks and leave the major flaws unresolved.
I'm pretty sure you have me on ignore, but on the off-chance you don't, there's one "major flaw" (basically that the robot doesn't think) and each revision chips away at it, adding more and more rules so it gets more difficult to reach a situation where the robot has to do something crazy like this.

Great hand, uva72uva72.
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#8 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2014-August-23, 01:14

View Poststeve2005, on 2014-August-22, 19:40, said:

uva72uva72 is right. shouldn't be leading singleton. if I remember correctly NGib showed a suit and p raised it freely. Hmm might that be a good idea, lead your partner's suit.
pump declarer and eventually declarer will be out of trump and you run


Probably not a bad general principle under which to operate, not that GIB thinks like that. However the OP is an unfortunate example hand to illustrate the principle, since a Heart lead or singleton Club both lead to two down on best subsequent defence in this case (as does top trump). A diamond lead concedes a trick to hold it to one off, and the only way to do better than Heart or Club lead is a low trump.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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