[lycier]

---

Wether play LSGT or HSGT,Gib E should bid up to game with Kxxx in ♥.
Strangely,Gib E refuse me,why?

[georgi]

To advance for game GIB checks for:

14HCP and some high honor in the help-suit ( Q+)
13+HCP and KQ+ ( and 3+ of course in this suit, not just KQ)
13+( or 12+ with no honors in shortness causing lose of TP ) HCP and unrevealed shortness 0-1 somewhere.

To advance with raising in OM ( if that was help-suit ) GIB needs 14HCP and 4 cards ( or might be 13+HCP with short (0-2) other minor and no honors in it). There is no danger raise of help-suit to be over 4 of "our" major as help-suit call is 2♠/3♥, so over 3♠/4♥ responder could correct/pass to appropriate contract.

Here with 13HCP , GIB ( opener ) doesn't have 5+HCP in the suit ( KQ, AJ ), so cannot proceed to 4M by itself.

[1eyedjack]

I am surprised that GIB uses HCP rather than TP in this situation (whatever limits you set it at).

I am a bit surprised that it uses rules rather than simulations also, but after that 1N-4N-6N hand that I posted earlier, perhaps all to the good.

[Bbradley62]

Is "game try suit" a generally accepted term? I'm familiar with long suit, short suit and help suit game tries, but my knowledge on such things is sometimes a little archaic. I usually take these game tries to mean "bid game with any maximum, or with a little less if you have the properly-fitting cards, based on the type of try".

[georgi]

If, in general, game-try suit guarantees some honor(s), then East has help with top honor K and with almost max could bid game.

But here game-try is not defined as Q+ or K+, so versus xxx East with balanced hand and ♦Jx ♣Qxx instead of ♠AKxx♥K1098♦xx♣Kxx may not bid game.

Game-try is not just step-stone for game, but responder has or invite values or GF+ values.

3NT is also available call for opener, so and splinter in case it has short OM/om. Currently GIB doesn't use these, maybe soon it will.

But this flat hand with Jx and Qxx over 3♥ game-try is not the best place to be as opener and deciding to bid game or not.

Imagine responder has:

QJxx
AQxx
Kx
xxx

[Bbradley62]

 georgi, on 2014-August-07, 09:53, said:

Imagine responder has:
QJxx
AQxx
Kx
xxx

I hope that hand would bid 1♥ over 1♣, not 1♠, but I think I can shift one card to see where balanced 13 opposite balanced 12 has issues. But, I still don't get the overall theme. With what holding(s) should I choose to bid 3♥ as a game try rather than simply 3♠?

[lycier]

---

[Bbradley62]

The response for post #7 is clear: Responder has an absolute maximum for his simple raise, so he should accept any game invitation.

[steve2005]

Gib uses 2-way game tries, so 3♥ us a long suit game try. I put it to you that KT98 is undervalued in this situation much as AJT9x is undervalued in most situations.