[jjbrr]

true, barmar move this to simple rulings plz

[gwnn]

blackshoe, on 2014-July-22, 22:38, said:

Why are we wasting our time trying Amanda Knox in here?

Why are we wasting our time discussing a game with 52 coloured cards and bidding boxes? I personally find this case fascinating but I know that it is very unlikely to have any effect on me (I am unlikely to meet AK or RC and they are unlikely to kill or hurt me even if we do meet, whether or not they are guilty).

[helene_t]

Fluffy, on 2014-July-22, 13:45, said:

So this is why we don't get any more cats at WC?

Tbf he quoted the defence argument that it must have been the cat that operated the phone while they were asleep

But I agree with Csaba. This story is fascinating

[kenberg]

helene_t, on 2014-July-23, 01:08, said:

Tbf he quoted the defence argument that it must have been the cat that operated the phone while they were asleep

But I agree with Csaba. This story is fascinating

No! No! No! I refuse to be dragged into this!

She needs a spiffy name. Hurricane has already been used. How about Amanda "Tornado" Knox?

Oh, I am being sucked in! Help!

[gwnn]

I'm not sure why people are making jokes here, is it funny that her throat was slit open or that her roommate&BF tried to cover it up? Aren't there enough comedy threads available in the water cooler?

[mike777]

As I said this case along with the Monster of Florence represents an indictment of the entire Italian system of Justice. You cannot trust the facts in the forensic science, the prosecutor, some of the investigators, and the interrogation. One can only hope in this case given time the system will right itself.

[PassedOut]

mike777, on 2014-July-23, 11:07, said:

As I said this case along with the Monster of Florence represents an indictment of the entire Italian system of Justice. You cannot trust the facts in the forensic science, the prosecutor, some of the investigators, and the interrogation. One can only hope in this case given time the system will right itself.

We have the same problems many places in the US. Seems like a stretch to indict "the entire Italian system of Justice."

[Winstonm]

I would hate to be tried by a jury of my peers that based their decisions on media accounts and internet stories.

[mike777]

Italy does not have a jury of peers judge you.


"Italy does not try anybody by a jury of peers"
"...an Italian trial, including the preliminary investigations, preliminary hearing, trial and appeals, can last several years. To keep a citizen — who continues to work..."

http://en.wikipedia....minal_Procedure


One reason, if accurate, may be:

"The legal system grinds very slowly and it takes years for a case to come to court; the average time between indictment and a court judgement is ten years, and eight out of ten convictions involving prison terms never take effect"

[mikeh]

having read most of the obsessively detailed description of the 'evidence', my view is that if the description is factually accurate, and ignoring what appear to be biased arguments drawn from the facts (such as the significance of the lamp, which to me seems dubious at best, then it would be my view that she is guilty. However, as a trial lawyer who has occasionally seen newspaper articles about trials where I was counsel, I would not accept as factually correct, in all salient details, anything that was second-hand. I would want to read the actual transcript (translated reliably) and the actual exhibits or very accurate copies of them. This is true even when the person recounting the details is completely honest and (far more rare) objective. My reading of the posts suggests that objectivity may have been lost, if it was ever there. That is not intended as a criticism of the blogger, nor a suggestion that I think the facts ARE inaccurate. I don't and can't know that, and I would be very surprised if most of what was written was wrong. However, guilt is usually, and in this case apparently definitely, the result of the drawing of inferences from facts, and sometimes very minor alterations in the manner in which evidence was given, or minor details that are understandably omitted by the recounter would in real life have a significant effect on the inferences.

In other words, in my view attempts to analyze the result of a police investigation and subsequent trial ought not to be done without full access to the record and without training in how the system works.

So my vote, were I to have one, is that I suspect that she is guilty but am not so convinced that I would vote to convict in the very improbable scenario where I was called upon to vote, based on what was made available here.

[mike777]

What makes the Ak and the Monster of Florence cases and others so interesting is the suggestion that the citizens of Italy are losing faith in the major institutions that make up Italy.

that in our lifetimes Italy may break up into smaller city/states. The discussion that this may be a positive.

Losing faith in the justice institution is just one factor. Losing faith in the Italy version of the IRS is another. Losing faith that the executive and legislature can succeed.

to focus on a light fixture means you lose focus on the big picture.

[kenberg]

gwnn, on 2014-July-23, 08:54, said:

I'm not sure why people are making jokes here, is it funny that her throat was slit open or that her roommate&BF tried to cover it up? Aren't there enough comedy threads available in the water cooler?

I have thought a bit about this. My thoughts:

I don't know anything at all about the Italian legal system. I don't know much about the American system but from the little experience I have had with it, it is clearly best to avoid it. I had to look up who Amanda Knox was. Of course I don't think it's funny that someone got her throat slit, I don't think any of the many violent deaths that occur every day are funny, Somehow this has captured people's interest, it hasn't captured mine, I find it bizarre that people are voting on whether or not she is guilty, This thread is not for me, it is for others, and I am happy to withdraw any comment that I have made, no offense was intended, and I will just stay out of it. Of all the comments so far, those of mikeh come closest to my views.