[kenberg]

Granddaughter is graduating from college and moving to Brooklyn. I've never been there, and neither has she, but they tell me it is a place with some history. It occurred to me to buy her a book.

She can find her own art galleries and such, and she is not much interested in baseball (Ebbets field is long gone anyway). I was thinking of something on the social history, not particularly profound or heavy, just interesting and a bit of fun. Any suggestions?

And restaurants? She is a vegetarian.

Specifically Brooklyn, is what I am after. I am no expert on Manhattan, but Brooklyn is a total mystery to me. Don't worry about a suggestion not being sufficiently brilliant.

[Bbradley62]

Have you seen the 70s TV show "Welcome Back, Kotter"? That was set in Brooklyn. Not one of the ritzier parts of Brooklyn, but definitely Brooklyn. Once upon a time, Brooklyn was its own city, the fourth largest in the country, before it and various other areas were merged into New York City.

Ebbets Field and the Dodgers are long gone, but the Barclays Center is the new arena, which is attracting sports teams and concerts and such. It's home to the Brooklyn (formerly New York and New Jersey) Nets, and will soon be home to the New York Islanders NHL team. Barbra Streisand and Billy Joel, among many others, have performed there.

And, of course, there's this bridge, complete with pedestrian lanes, connecting it to downtown Manhattan...

[kenberg]

I have large gaps in my popular culture knowledge. Welcome Back was at a time when I was watching very little television. I am only dimly aware of it.

This business of it being an independent city that eventually merged with others is along the lines that I am thinking. I can't say that I have been really successful in buying books for grandkids. With Kathryn, I taught her to ride a bike which went very well. We took her with us to a lodge when she was about 9. Like so many young people these days her life was (in my view) very overscheduled and she was delighted to do whatever she wished, including nothing at all. So I am hoping for something along these lines. Relaxing but interesting.

I liked the old movie A Tee Grows in Brooklyn but I doubt she would make much of it at all. Too far from her own life. She likes Truffaut. Not that her life has much in common with Jules and Jim either, or at least I hope not.

[Bbradley62]

This looks kind of cool, if you can find it on DVD: http://www.thirteen.org/brooklyn/
(Channel 13 is PBS.)

[uday]

Manhattan is really $$$. At one time Bklyn was cheaper. It is unclear that that is still the case. My impression from the UWS ( upper west side ) of manhattan is that Bklyn is where the young professionals and their families go, nowadays.
It is just as vibrant as manhattan, just with buildings that aren't quite as tall.

This site, http://chowhound.chow.com/boards/19 , discusses food in the various "outer" boroughs of nyc ( brooklyn, queens, the bronx, and i suppose Staten Island).

[hrothgar]

Concur with Uday about Chowhound

Pok Pok is really really good, but sadly I don't think the offer much of anything for vegetarians

[blackshoe]

The Brooklyn Historical Society may provide some useful information.

[kenberg]

 blackshoe, on 2014-May-07, 19:55, said:

The Brooklyn Historical Society may provide some useful information.

I went to the exhibitions page: http://www.brooklynh...ns/current.html
Scrolling down I found Inventing Brooklyn:

This looks as if it would interest me at any rate. We also ordered something from Amazon about walking in Brooklyn, I forget exactly the title. I'll report back.

As you can see by reading the blurb below, the bulk of the work appears ti be done by high school students, I presume with strong guidance. There is another thread on the wc lamenting (and I have joined in the laments) much of our current educational issues. But of course there are bright spots, some very bright. I'm impressed, and I hope to see it.


June 2011 - Summer 2014
Inventing Brooklyn: People, Places, Progress traces the evolution of Brooklyn into the place we know today. From Native American roots and Dutch colonial influences to icons such as the Brooklyn Bridge and the Dodgers, Inventing Brooklyn examines how various people, places, and historical events have shaped the development of the borough. Drawing on archival documents, photographs, prints, artifacts, and oral histories from the Brooklyn Historical Society collection, Inventing Brooklyn takes on 400 years of Brooklyn's history. The exhibit includes items relating to the Battle of Brooklyn, Brooklyn's first newspapers, and Brooklyn's diverse immigrant populations in order to capture the complexity and dynamism of the process of Inventing Brooklyn.

Inventing Brooklyn: People, Places, Progress is created by the high school students in Brooklyn Historical Society's Exhibition Laboratory program. Now in its fifth year, Ex Lab invites students from four local high schools to help curate and design a new BHS exhibit. The Ex Lab students work closely with BHS staff, consulting historians, and professional exhibit designers to conduct archival research, choose objects, and write exhibit text in order to bring Inventing Brooklyn to life.

[y66]

Try the search feature at brooklynbased.com.

I'm having lunch with some young Brooklyn family members Sunday. Will report back Monday.

[GreenMan]

 kenberg, on 2014-May-07, 12:25, said:

I liked the old movie A Tee Grows in Brooklyn but I doubt she would make much of it at all. Too far from her own life. She likes Truffaut. Not that her life has much in common with Jules and Jim either, or at least I hope not.

A Tree Grows in Brooklyn started life as a book; perhaps she might find it more to her liking. I haven't read it, though I know people who did and liked it.

[FM75]

Ok - I have only one recommendation.

Tell your granddaughter that she will be living on an island. I know that may sound obvious to you. But I used to work in NYC. You would be surprised at how many people commuting from Brooklyn and Queens thought that they were commuting to an island, but did not live on one!

[Bbradley62]

Although Brooklyn and Queens are physically attached to Long Island, they are not part of Long Island. That designation is reserved for Nassau and Suffolk Counties. She should never tell anyone that she lives on Long Island, because that would be misleading.

[GreenMan]

 Bbradley62, on 2014-May-08, 17:15, said:

Although Brooklyn and Queens are physically attached to Long Island, they are not part of Long Island. That designation is reserved for Nassau and Suffolk Counties. She should never tell anyone that she lives on Long Island, because that would be misleading.

They are indeed on Long Island, which has four counties. Many people only use the term to refer to Nassau and Suffolk, but that doesn't change the physical reality.

[kenberg]

The Wikippedia tells me:
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Long_Island

Quote

Long Island is an island in the U.S. state of New York. Stretching northeastwards from New York Harbor into the Atlantic Ocean, Long Island contains four counties, two of which (Brooklyn and Queens) are boroughs of New York City,^[2] and two of which are mainly suburban (Nassau and Suffolk). In popular usage, "Long Island" often refers only to Nassau and Suffolk counties in order to differentiate them from New York City, although all four counties are situated on the island and are part of the New York metropolitan area.^[3] North of the island is Long Island Sound, across which are the states of Connecticut and Rhode Island.

Which matches what has been said, at least I think so.

I confess to a fair amount of ignorance on the subject, and I gather from the above that there is some variation in usage. If I am getting this right, Long Island, as a geographic island, does include Brooklyn and Queens but Long Island, as a cultural or political object, does not. Brooklyn and Queens are boroughs of NYC, and therefore vote for the NY Mayor, for example, while people in Nassau and Suffolk counties do not, right? And there is no Long Island Mayor, or Long Island County Council or any such object. They are all on the same island in the geographic sense that you can get from one to the other without crossing over any river, or at least not something like the East River. So far so good? But if Long Island is not really a political entity, and it is not co-extensive with the actual island, what is it exactly? A cultural entity in some way? For example, in cities there is a boundary. You are in the city or you are not. Is it the same for Long Island? Is it that if you are in either of the two counties you are in Long Island, and if you are not in either of the counties then, wherever you are, yonu are not in Long Island?

I was vaguely aware that it was something like this but I never really had any reason to get it straight.

[mike777]

I have a young nephew in Park slope...let me check with him.

He went to Fordham

Any specific questions?

"Park Slope at a Glance:


Brooklyn's family-friendly Park Slope neighborhood is known for its beautiful tree-lined streets and historic brownstones and is home, too, to a diverse range of popular restaurants and bars.

Named in 2007 as one of America's top 10 neighborhoods, Park Slope's charms are numerous: Prospect Park makes up the neighborhood's "back yard," transportation is plentiful, local schools are top-rated, and the area boasts several world class museums and cultural institutions."

[Flem72]

Here I am in Greenpoint visiting my kids. One has been here for 10 years, with a company-pushed move to Sydney for 2.5, and one has been here almost 7. The latter is now 24, declined college and moved to B'lyn just b/c that was his thing. He is now well-established in the restaurant/bar scene, but he has had to struggle. Moved 9 times: ONe of the problems is finding a good place to live; some of his were illegal; he's in a good one now, pays $1400 for about 350 sq ft, rent-stabilized. Rent-stabilized or rent-controlled is the holy grail.

His advice to a newbie: Live close to where you will work, or directly on a train line, b/c getting to and from can be a bitch. Consider Queens b/c B'lyn, especially Williamsburg and Greenpoint, are now trending to money, developers very busy, wealthy Europeans paying $2500 and more /sq ft for condos. You had better enjoy walking, or get a bike.

Wonderful, vibrant, pedestrian-ruled neighborhoods, full of young people mixing with older folks of whatever ethnic group lived there before the influx. Also, saw the Park Slope reference: It is indeed one of the lovliest areas in B'lyn, assuming,of course, that you have the $1 mil + required to buy one of those townhouses. Luck seems to rule when it comes to finding digs. and situations.

[kenberg]

 mike777, on 2014-May-08, 22:18, said:

I have a young nephew in Park slope...let me check with him.

He went to Fordham

Any specific questions?

"Park Slope at a Glance:


Brooklyn's family-friendly Park Slope neighborhood is known for its beautiful tree-lined streets and historic brownstones and is home, too, to a diverse range of popular restaurants and bars.

Named in 2007 as one of America's top 10 neighborhoods, Park Slope's charms are numerous: Prospect Park makes up the neighborhood's "back yard," transportation is plentiful, local schools are top-rated, and the area boasts several world class museums and cultural institutions."

I don't know enough to have specific questions but this is helpful. Of course I don't really expect my granddaughter to be asking me for advice! She will be moving in with a friend who graduated in December. She, the friend, already has a place. . With some temporary parental support she will be more secure than I was at age 21, but they will be renting and I doubt that we are speaking of upscale renting. Comfortable and, with good sense, safe, I trust. She needs a job, I imagine she will find one.

Our role is to be supportive. Maybe buy her a card at a decent local restaurant so she can get out some and see what's around. Buy her a book or two about Brooklyn. I may read a little more about Park Slope and other items mentioned above. It's her life of course, she has to make of things what she will.

Thanks all for the suggestions. For me, visiting Ellis Island was mire stunning than the Metropolitan Museum or the Lincoln Center. I suspect her ranking would be different. It's an exciting time of life.

[Bbradley62]

 kenberg, on 2014-May-08, 20:53, said:

If I am getting this right, Long Island, as a geographic island, does include Brooklyn and Queens but Long Island, as a cultural or political object, does not. Brooklyn and Queens are boroughs of NYC, and therefore vote for the NY Mayor, for example, while people in Nassau and Suffolk counties do not, right? And there is no Long Island Mayor, or Long Island County Council or any such object. They are all on the same island in the geographic sense that you can get from one to the other without crossing over any river, or at least not something like the East River. So far so good?

Completely correct.

 kenberg, on 2014-May-08, 20:53, said:

But if Long Island is not really a political entity, and it is not co-extensive with the actual island, what is it exactly? A cultural entity in some way? For example, in cities there is a boundary. You are in the city or you are not. Is it the same for Long Island? Is it that if you are in either of the two counties you are in Long Island, and if you are not in either of the counties then, wherever you are, yonu are not in Long Island?

Each of the two counties of Long Island (Nassau and Suffolk) has a County Executive and a County Legislature. Best I can tell, the only thing the county provides is police, courts, and some highway management. There are about 10 Townships (sometimes also called Town, capitalized). Each has a Town Supervisor and a Town Board. The Town provides Parks & Rec, trash collection, road management, water/sewer. Within each Town there are entities that are legally/officially called Hamlets, although everyone here refers to them as towns (lower case). (If you're not a friend of the Great Gatsby, you'd never use the word "hamlet".) For example: I live in south western Suffolk County (the easternmost of the counties). I'm in the Town of Babylon, and the town of Deer Park. Deer Park has no management or services; it has a post office and a volunteer fire department. There are a few Villages spread around The Island that have their own governments, within Townships.

But the bottom line is that a Brooklynite is not a Long Islander, either in her own mind or in the view of Long Islanders.

[barmar]

Long Island, when used to refer to the parts of the island that are not NYC boroughs, is kind of like other informal designations, such as "upstate New York", "New England".

Long Islanders don't really have a single, common culture (the folks in Hicksville have little in common with the Hamptons, except that Billy Joel was able to move from one to the other after he became a rock star) -- they're mostly distinguished as being not in "the city".

FYI, I was born and lived my first year in Queens, then we moved out to the suburbs on LI.

[Bbradley62]

 barmar, on 2014-May-09, 10:04, said:

FYI, I was born and lived my first year in Queens, then we moved out to the suburbs on LI.

Which probably means that your parents were born and raised in The City, as were mine

PS to Ken: To a Long Islander, "The City" means any of the five boroughs; to someone living in the five boroughs, "The City" probably means Manhattan.