[Kungsgeten]

Most play 2/1 as natural, either GF, almost GF or in rare cases non-forcing. What are the alternatives that make sense? I'm mainly thinking about major suit openings (limited or not). Please share your methods or methods you've encountered!

[Kungsgeten]

Pretty common, and gaining popularity, is some kind of "transfer" structure, with 2C being a nebulous bid (GF relay, or perhaps natural/bal GF, or even nat/bal GF/three card limit raise). The continuations over these does not seem to be documented to the same extent though.

[trevahound]

A local expert plays a 2/1 nonGF method that a bunch of us reasonable players have no adopted. The gist is 1M - 2nt is nat and GF (so 1M - 2y is always a real suit). A 2/1 call will be inv or better; if only invitational, it will be only either:
a one suited invite (like a invitational jump shift without the jump)
a two suited invite
5+ in the bid suit and exactly 3 in partner's M

You sort it all out with opener's rebid and responder's 2nd call. BTW, we all play this with a baby nt in most or all seats, so a NT rebid by us must be 14+ and GF opposite an invite. With a str NT, you'd have to reserve the nt rebid for 17+ I imagine.

Opener makes their natural rebid except that opener may not rebid 2nt or higher without GF strength opposite a potential invitational hand. 2M becomes the catchall. 2♠ if ♥'s were opened does not show a GF, just shape. If opener rebids 2nt or higher, responder's calls are all natural and we're in a GF.

If opener rebids less than 2nt he does not deny a GF, of course. Responder's 2nd call is a transfer, starting with 2nt and through 3M-1. If responder's transfer is consistent with one of the possible invitational hand types, opener takes the transfer with a hand that would have passed the invite (or corrects to the other suit if it's a two suited invite and he'd have passed), and bids something else with undsiclosed extras. Responder's transfer into anything else is GF and natural. Responder's transfer into 3M (3M-1) shows the 5+ first suit =3M second suit, either GF unsure of strain or inv. Opener accepts the transfer if he'd decline the invite, and if responder bids on he's unsure of strain but GF. You can sort out quite a lot, and for me the best part is getting 2nt back as natural. Of course, you have to be quizzed on your apparent failure to alert every time the auction goes 1M - 2nt. Just like when you don't play inverted minors....

Brian Zaugg

[kenrexford]

Golady 2C, possibly with Toddler 2D. I love Golady after minor openings, but it seems workable over major openings if Toddler is added.

[glen]

Since 1M keeps getting lighter and lighter, even among expert natural, the requirements for a GF correspondingly go up, meaning one should not waste most of the two level for relatively infrequent bids.

One of the best approaches is:

1M-2♣: GF without 5+ in the other major, and not 3+ in M unless some slam interest (see Golady and equivalents)
1♠-2♦: transfer to ♥s, includes all GF with 5+♥s
1♥-2♦, 1♠-2♥: invite with 3+M, includes bad invites
1M-2NT (or some bid above 2M): GF raise with 3(4)M, no slam interest, and, if playing a limited 1M, some interest in 3NT (otherwise bid 1M-4M)

Simple 1M-2♣ structure:
- all of opener's rebids are natural except 2♦ which is catchall, either minor or minimum balanced
- 1M-2♣-2M shows 6 or longer
- 1♥-2♣-2♠ does not promise extras
- 1M-2♣-2NT natural with extras
- after opener rebids 2X (not 2NT) cheapest bid asks, natural responses except 2♠ shows ♦s, and 1M-2♣-2♦-2♥-3X is ♣s
- after opener rebids 2♦, 2♠ by responder shows ♦s, and 3X is ♣s

1M-2♣-?
2♦: catchall, either minor or min bal
-- 2♥: asks
---- 2♠: ♦s, 2NT re-asks
---- 2NT: min bal
---- 3X: ♣s
-- 2♠: ♦s
-- 2NT: bal
-- 3X: ♣s
2M: 6+M, cheapest bid asks
2OM: 4+OM, cheapest bid asks
2NT: bal, extra
3m: natural, 5-5, good suits
3M: natural, one/no loser suit

[whereagles]

There is also the 2♣ Monk relay for people who play 4-card majors. Let me see if I can recall it:

1M 2♣
2♦ = balanced min or two-suited max. Now 2M is artificial and asks for clarification (opener bids 2NT min or suit max).
2M = min 5+ cards. May be two-suited.
2OM = natural 54 (reverse strength if spades)
2NT = balanced max
3x = natural 55 min
3M = natural 6 suiter max

etc. This structure was meant for 11-15 openers, but the original version was for 11-20 openers, so you can tweak it in accordance.

[glen]

whereagles, on 2014-July-13, 12:01, said:

There is also the 2♣ Monk relay for people who play 4-card majors. Let me see if I can recall it:

1M 2♣
2♦ = balanced min or two-suited max. Now 2M is artificial and asks for clarification (opener bids 2NT min or suit max).
2M = min 5+ cards. May be two-suited.
2OM = natural 54 (reverse strength if spades)
2NT = balanced max
3x = natural 55 min
3M = natural 6 suiter max

etc. This structure was meant for 11-15 openers, but the original version was for 11-20 openers, so you can tweak it in accordance.

this doesn't seem to be designed to have 4M and a longer minor

playing canape I think it is essential to have something like this to unwind the hands

[kenrexford]

glen, on 2014-July-13, 14:06, said:

this doesn't seem to be designed to have 4M and a longer minor

playing canape I think it is essential to have something like this to unwind the hands

The complexity of the unwind depends on the range of opening and whether the canapé is pure or tendency. Golady works really well with a limited pure.

[rbforster]

I worked for a while on a 2/1 non-forcing style over limited 1M openers that was more like a weak two bid (6+ or maybe 5 card suit if a good one or misfitting for opener enough to pull). I used higher bids as raises (2N+ ala Jacoby, etc), and 1N was forcing including GF non-fitting hands. The idea was that a new suit after opener's natural rebid (which would normally be a sign off, I.e 1H-1N-2C-2D) would be an artificial GF and not needed for the normal weak treatment since those hands would have made a weak 2/1 initially. I was never able to get it entirely sorted out however and eventually went back to 2/1 GF.

[whereagles]

glen, on 2014-July-13, 14:06, said:

[Monk relay]
this doesn't seem to be designed to have 4M and a longer minor
playing canape I think it is essential to have something like this to unwind the hands

Yes on both. Indeed the Monk scheme wasn't meant for canapes. Alternative schemes can be designed, which cater for that. I knew a guy who used one such system (don't know details though).

[Kungsgeten]

Very interesting structures indeed. A convention I've seen played (with limited opening bids) is where 2/1 is either natural GF or a weak transfer. I'm not quite sure of the continuations but I guess opener accepts the transfer most of the time or bids naturally if afraid of being passed if accepting the transfer. Here's an example:

1S---
1NT = I think this is ordinary negative NT
2C = GF clubs or weak diamonds
2D = GF diamonds or weak hearts
2H = GF hearts or weak spade raise
2S = Constructive spade raise (or perhaps even invitational, I'm not sure)

Carotti and Magic Diamond, and later Moscito versions, uses pure transfers over the majors openings. The transfer may be of any strength, and opener usually accepts:

1M---
1S = Natural (a system called Nalle uses transfer rebids by opener in this sequence)
1NT = Clubs
2C = Diamonds
2D = Hearts
2M-1 = Good raise
2M = Weak raise

A way of gaining the popular 1S--2D as hearts, as suggested by glen, is to switch 2D and 2H, like this:

1S---
2D = Hearts, constructive+ with 6+ hearts, INV+ with 5 hearts
2H = GF with 5+ diamonds

[PhilKing]

The most important suit for responses to 1♠ to focus on is hearts.

2♣ = 4+ ♥ GF or 6+ inv+
2♦ = other GFs, denies 4H or 3S
2♥ = good raise

It's doable. You can get some good concealment over 2♦ where opener can bid a "catch all" 2♥ and subsequently never reveal hs shape.

This is a work in progress, but you heard it here first.

[Free]

With an unpassed hand we play 2♣ GF relay, 2♦ GF with 6+♦, 2♥ GF with 5+♥. Nothing really spectacular here.
With passed hand we play: 2♣ reversed Drury, 2♦ shows 5OM-2M choice of part scores. The 2♦ is much more useful this way than some natural bid or 2-way Drury imo.

[inquiry]

kenrexford, on 2014-July-13, 05:58, said:

Golady 2C, possibly with Toddler 2D. I love Golady after minor openings, but it seems workable over major openings if Toddler is added.

Are either of these ACBL legal. I would worry about toddler 2♦

[kenrexford]

inquiry, on 2014-July-16, 20:10, said:

Are either of these ACBL legal. I would worry about toddler 2♦

Golady is. Toddler is if you promise 3+ diamonds.